I did try exploding the viewport, so doing so, disconnects from the model it seems? That isn’t really going to work for real construction workflow, but perhaps I’m missing something?
Can you copy the view port to a new layer, explode it, and turn off the original layer? Then if there are changes, just delete the exploded one, go back to the original and repeat the process? (I’m not an expert with LO, but this idea has been milling around the back of my head.)
Not a bad idea but ti will still bog down layout because the data is being held in the file, in that ‘editable’ state.
Whatever happens when LO viewports are Exploded is that they are stripped of things that are invisible. (for example any layers that are turned off, or geometry that is behind other geometry). without that “dnamica flexibility” LO does run very smoothly.
SO the suggestiion that LO performance could be enhanced if it only dealt with exploded viewports is actually av ery smart one.
Maybe should get the option to export “ALL” or export “Visible” (or “Selected”) (with visible export being stripped of all the other stuff/layers/etc). What we forgo in graphical flexibility could be very worthwhile in terms of speed.
In that context, how long does it take to duplicate a Paperspace tab?
(I feel like that is more equivalent to what LO is trying to do with each model view).
To disconnect from the model is exactly what you want! Like InDesign. ONLY when you want to update the viewport it reconnects with the model (in the background) and ‘explodes’ the viewport again.
It’s almost instant.
I do feel that perhaps my workflow is simply not compatible with LO, a typical project has dozens of revisions, and there is no way I’m going to re-create viewports in LO and then re-explode them for every revision. It just doesn’t make time efficient sense - I get paid for the work I do and if something takes me more time, that increases my fees which in turn make me less appealing to appoint as I will be less competitive.
Please appreciate, I am an enthusiastic user of SU, but it’s only applicable to specific projects, where visuals are required. It has to be observed that the cost difference between SU and CAD products is significant for a reason, people (myself included) can work faster in CAD, in part because the software itself is optimised. SU started life as a fun app and then evolved. CAD products saw industries in need of a specific tool and create them. There are no workarounds in CAD, there is a tool for each required usage, it just works. As aforementioned, I am a keen user of SU and it has helped with many projects.
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Are you using scenes in SketchUp?
I’d say it’s not so much about the number of revisions (I too will have many revisions), seemingly (to me) it’s more about the complexity of the model - scale, the amount of detail, poly count, etc. - and one’s particular workflow.
As I’ve mentioned in the forum, my models are minimal and I draw detailed construction detail in Layout. It works for the type of project I do.
I’m currently working on a residential box dormer conversion and I have deliberately modelled each plain tile that is cladding the dormer using a plain tile component. There are a great number of these tiles.
There is a noticeable lag in LO when I’m updating viewports that I don’t normally experience - but I knew that would happen. These drawings are for planning. When I get to the construction document stage I’ll remove the plain tiles from the model.
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Hey everyone
Layout isn’t as slow as everyone think, and I’ll try to share what I’ve learned about it so far.
I’ve been using SketchUp since 2008, and today SketchUp and Layout are in the core of our workflow.
We are a small architecture firm in Brazil, with 14 PCs running SketchUp.
Our project are mainly architecture and interior design of the entire house, and all projects have one single file for entire house. So it’s a large, very large skp file.
By large I mean around 200 to 500mb and 5 to 20 million edges.
Ok, Layout isn’t as fast as an Autocad for instance. That is true and certainly there is a lot of work to be done to make it faster. But as I found this is mainly because what we are trying to do with Layout.
If you try to export a large SketchUp file to dwg, with millions of lines and edges, and open in AutoCAD, than AutoCAD will be slow as hell. So maybe it´s not the software, but the model.
So, these are a few things to consider:
Non original SketchUp/Layout version (cracked) is slower.
This a big one!!! And I´m sure Sketchup guys will be happy with it.
Let me tell a story. During this pandemic one of our employees stared to work at home, and she said she could use her own computer. Immediately she started to complain Layout was impossible to work with. It was taking about one or two seconds to the mouse find the anchor point in the model to draw something or place a dimension. A nightmare.
After a lot of testing, we found out the cracked version she was using was the responsible for slow. After installing an original Sketchup the problem was solved.
All our machines only have original softwares. This is an ethical decision that I made many years ago. But I´m aware that 99% of the Sketchup installations in Brazil are cracked (And I´m probably not exaggerating the 99%).
Since I´ve never used a cracked version, I can’t really explain why or if it is with some specific version, but what I now is that in the story above, it was impossible to work with Layout.
Lighter Sketchup Files
Before using Layout, It´s important to leave SketchUp as light as possible. In our workflow we take out of the file all decoration and plants. Basically, all the large objects that are not part of the project, but simply things to make a nice render. All these objects are cut from the project file and “pasted in place” in another file, so we can bring it back if necessary.
Proxies
There are still some large objects that are part of the project, and we don´t want to take of the main file, as the beds, sofas and chairs. For these we usually make a proxy (for Enscape or Vray) with a simple representation in the main file but a nice render.
After this cleanup we have a file that is still very large (about 1 to 4 million edges). This is the size of the file we will take to Layout, but not before making 2D representations for some objetcs.
2D representations
Consider create a 2D representation if you need to flatten to many lines. I´ll not get into details but this makes sense, and Layout run much faster. This guys video explain it better: LayOut Myth 3: LayOut is Slow - YouTube
Hardware
Specially if you are working with large files, a good hardware will make difference.
Although this is not the main factor to make layout faster! Light files / representations are essential to work with Layout and no hardware will do if you have a huge file.
We have tested many different setups, and for Layout the best one was:
I9-10900 3.70Ghz / 32Gb RAM DDR4
Processor and memory are the core of a nice setup.
The video card will help render the viewport faster, but will not affect much on how fast/slow to draw/navigate in Layout.
I´m using a RTX2070 Super, which is a great card for the Enscape, but only for Layout I would suggest something cheaper.
Recently I also tested an I7-11700. If you do a single thread benchmark comparison with the I9 it will give similar results, but the i9 is much better for Layout for some reason (I would guess about 20% to 30% better).
Here is an example of a project that we are working on. It´s not as optimized as I wich, but it is working smooth enough.
Layout file is 500Mb.
Sketchup file is 200Mb / 5 million edges / 2 million faces
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Good post.
Is your model you show in your animation including those proxy or 3d elements, or do you have a version where you delete layers containing those items? (your method is similar to what I do - I put all 3d items on a seperate layer or in a seperate component that I can easily delete before I send the file to LO.
Of course if any of those items are visible in layout then you get a LOT of lag due to rendering and snapping. LO really is designed to render simple 2d views with flat colours and simple edge geometry.
@bikerchris But you are dead right that the revisions process can be very slow - having to update & reinsert the SketchUp file can be a killer if you are a waiiting 5 mins per sheet to render.
Fiddling with dimension updates/snapping is also a killer. It wouldnt be so bad if LO didnt crash so often on heavier models.
I agree what you say about the “ground up” purpose. LO definitely seems more at home with simple projects. It absolutely runs like a dream if I’m designing and documenting a small garden shed.
Any changes to that model are quick for LayOut to update and render as long as they are simple changes, eg moving a window, but if you change something like modifying a complex piece of terrain then layout will take a longer time to update. LO just can’t handle the shading of faces in the way that SketchUp can.
Other things that kill LayOut performance:
- Certain fonts, or too much text on the page especially if that text is added inside SketchUp.
- geometry imported from other softwawre, such as a DWG base plan, or a Point cloud from a surveyor. For whatever reason that geomtery (even after exploding) isn’t optimised for SU+LO.
- Too many components or nested groups.
Julio , it’s really interesting what you say about the i7 vs i9. Would be great to get an example of that (did you do a straight upgrade of the CPU, or is this is a different system?) I have found that little settings such as windows Power Management could make a difference to LayOut( and other apps in general).
A reallt fast M.2 hard drive makes a big difference, too…when you have to save SKP, then Update LO and then Save LO often, saving to a faster HDD cuts that time down signficantly!
Sorry for the delayed response.
I do most of the time and I have tested them in conjunction with LO.
Thank you for responding.
It’s not so much about the revisions, it’s the inconvenience of firstly doing a workaround and secondly, I just have more than enough things to think about, and if I can do something without thinking and maintain chargeable drawing time, I’m going to prefer that. AutoCAD lets me do that - of course this is partly because I have a lot of experience with it (20+ years), while SU/LO is around 10 years, but very much when needs must.
I think part of my problem is the variety of work I do, sometimes, like you it’s a dormer/loft conversion, while other times it’s the design of a New Build. The latter could be mistaken for fun, but as you know, clients change their mind…a lot. For good reason of course, they’re about to spend £0.5-1m. If I used SU, it might have a failure, which could cause me to lose hundreds in re-drawing time. CAD is incredibly reliable, of course it does occasionally fall over, but it’s so rare it doesn’t matter. Meanwhile when using SU, it could just randomly crash - and not because I have a large number of faces, etc., there is just something that I may have imported that it doesn’t like. I’ve run it on Xeon’s, i7’s, used GTX cards and Quadro cards, Used NVMe drives, and have pretty much the same experience.
Despite what could be considered a moan above, I still like SU. It’s just every time I use LO, I just think, “why is it this slow, I have the hardware to ensure it isn’t!”. When it comes to quick visuals, it’s great - and I used it to build my new office with great success - including calculating materials. It does genuinely make the slight tedium of drawing, quite fun. As an aside, when I bought a VR headset, that was wonderful to virtually walk around buildings or extensions that I had designed.
Hi Brazil!
I personally, very much welcome your contribution, thank you so much for taking the time. Without meaning to sound like a SU representative, I’m very pleased that you have so much success with SU/LO in your workflow. I’m sure it took a great deal of time and effort on the parts of yourself and your colleagues.
Just a personal opinion, but I do still prefer AutoCAD. In part, because I could import blueprints of the Teatro Amazonas and not have to be concerned about any issues. I do the vast majority of my work in 2D, the reason being is that clients make so many design changes. If I draw in 3D from the very beginning, my head would hurt with all the groups I would have to double click and adjust.
This aside, I am very grateful for your input and I wish you continued success.
Absolutely, for the hobbyist and smaller projects, LO is very appealing. The only paradox is the new subscription costs - it’s still a fraction of the larger vendors, but considering the capabilities, I’m not so sure it can be justified - but that’s another subject.
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Lets see if Layout improves. I am guessing it may not be possible
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We’ll see, I do wish them all the best, but I foresee a great amount of R&D would be needed, and that may mean another price rise.
I’m also suffering from horribly laggy LayOut operation, even though I only use raster render while editing files, and that 3D models aren’t very complex.
Also, just having a jpg image (300DPI) in the background of an A3 paper, makes drawing and editing text impossibly slow – how on earth is this possible?
I don’t have any coding experience, but I feel that a complete rewrite of LO is very much overdue, or at least a giant overhaul to make it more efficient. I don’t need any new functions, just efficiency!
I’ve experienced the same problems on the last many computer setups that I’ve had, and now also on the MacBook M1 Pro.
My motivation to pay for SU/LO-subscriptions is at an all time low – revolutionizing the efficiency would completely change that.
Fredrik
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Speed in Layout all comes down to the overall process you use in both SU and LO. Over a period of 9 months I produced 9 projects averaging 5000 sf with CD sets ranging in size from 80-130 sheets. There is no way I could have duplicated this work in ACAD, let alone met that aggressive schedule.
Here are some of the basics I follow from an Architect’s perspective.
SketchUp:
- Model with no free geometry.
- Assign tags only to groups and components.
- Check file size of any 3D warehouse elements first.
- Check all material image file sizes.
- Utilize proxy models to scene specific drawings. Especially important with the site and building….use 2 files with the building imported to the site as a component you update. It amazes me people do this in one model still.
Layout:
- Create separate templates for each drawing type… no single file cd set.
- Raster render as much as possible…pixelation only occurs when unrealistically zoomed in and is NOT experienced in the field.
- Minimize vector and hybrid rendering to isolated elements.
- Those that don’t like the concept of stacking viewports tend to have much slower results as they are trying to vector or hybrid render an entire model. Stacking allows you to utilize item 2&3 efficiently.
For my process, Layout is fast. Yes there are times I wish it were faster and less clunky, but overall I can produce drawings far quicker than I ever could in ACAD.
The biggest issues really come down to how your SU model is organized, SU file size and over utilizing both vector and hybrid rendering in Layout.
SU and LO are nothing like ACAD so you have to approach it with a different mindset.
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Thanks Sonder,
I totally agree with you. I don’t use Vectorworks anymore to produce my drafts, I fully rely on LO. But it is not a pleasant experience as I do have with SU. It is indeed CLUNKY. Then again, I wish Trimble would spend some more attention to it. As I’ve said many times before, it CAN be the holy grail if they developed it slightly more.
Does anyone have experience with LO to run on a computer with a RTX 3080 card? Does that improve speed?
Thanks!
I have a 3090 and it feels faster. I’ll try to time it to my 980ti next week. It is definitely much faster when I am rendering at the same time as using SU and LO…no comparison.
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Thanks! Ordered a RTX 3080 right away! 
At the time of spec’ing and building my new system earlier this year, I could not get an RTX3080 or 3090 as there was nothing available anywhere. I’m not sure if the situation has improved now, but I ended up getting an nVidia RTX4000 instead, which works really well with SU and LO. I have other resource-hungry and multi-threading apps that also whizz through with the RTX4000.
Like Nick says, LO needs to be refined …
I had to go pre-built to get a 3090. It’s a beast if a machine though with 128 gb ram. The price of the total build was only $800 more then the least expensive stand alone GPU I could find.
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