Layout 2020 Tags Bug...?

Just a mention of a potential bug in Layout (I’m not expecting any diagnostic by the forum).

I can revert to a previous workflow so not crucial but given the fanfare about controlling tags in LO I would think that if this is a bug it should be fixed promptly.

I use two to three stacked viewports in LO to control lineweight. Previously I would have a separate scene in SU for each stacked viewport.

In LO 2020 we can get rid of all these scenes in SU and control tags for each viewport directly in LO.

I have noticed groups of stacked viewports resetting themselves to some seemingly random previous set state, scenes, styles and tags.

I haven’t looked into this much myself but I thought I would mention it.

And yes, SU has been installed via right clicking as administrator.

I haven’t seen the issue you report but then I haven’t gone to entirely no scenes in SketchUp. I’m still making scenes but many fewer because I can use the same scene for the stacked viewports.

Same here. Whenever model is updated tags get reset to original state. It is obviously a bug that makes using tags unusable until they fix it.

We still recommended that you create a Scene within SketchUp before setting up your views in LayOut, you will just not need to make as many Scenes as you used to. If you do not have a scene and you either Send to LayOut or import a SketchUp model, LayOut displays the “Last Saved SketchUp View”. If this view changes in SketchUp (which is most likely going to happen), then when the model is reloaded in LayOut, the view will change as well. So, we still recommend setting up at least one scene per view that is going to be used in LayOut beforehand.

With the improved control you have within LayOut 2020 you can stack the viewports based on one scene and make Effect, Style and Tag adjustments to the stacked viewports. Then once edits are made in the SketchUp model they will be reflected correctly.



Thanks for that explanation, Trent.

I was going to write that without scenes to establish baseline views, styles, and visible tags, and the viewport linked to the Last saved SketchUp view, the viewports in the LO document don’t have a firm “footing” so to speak and it would be difficult to prevent unwanted changes due to changes you make in the SketchUp file.

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Just to clarify what I said earlier…

I haven’t abolished scenes all together.

e.g. for floor plans, I still have one scene per floor which corresponds to the relevant group of stacked viewports in LO.

I now have a number of projects completed in LO2020. I haven’t seen the tags resetting after updating the model reference in any of them. I wonder what is different between yours and mine.

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What if a file containing no scenes is imported into Layout 2020 and within Layout the viewport is set to either a standard scene (ortho) or a custom perspective view via double click and orbit. Does that view reset when the model reference is updated?

I have now tested and I see the answer to my question is, no. If the viewport camera position is set using one of the standard views or by opening the viewport and orbiting within Layout, then those views, including their styles and choices are preserved when the model reference is updated.

This is not what I am seeing (I’m very glad to say). As long as I edit the camera position once within Layout, either by choosing a standard view, or by opening the viewport, the camera position is preserved within Layout after that no matter what I do to the SketchUp file. The Layout Sketchup Model window still says “Last saved SketchUp View,” but no matter where I move the camera in the Sketchup file and resave, the camera does not change in the viewports even after a model reference update

It seems to me that all my dreams have come true and I can now make Layout Documents completely independently from scenes, as long as I edit the camera position at least once on each viewport.

FOR THE OP: I do not see tag resetting themselves on update.

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Because doing so disconnects the viewport from reference model updates.

Hmmm…not from what I am seeing. That’s the whole point of the 2020 changes for me, there is no more “modified”, no more disconnection. I can make unlimited changes to the sketchup file and update the reference and all is well. The camera and style choices are retained the the model reference updates just fine.

What happen in LO if you turn off the tag where the object is tagged and save the SketchUp file?

Changing visible tags in LO has no effect on the SketchUp model. There’s no backwards connection from LO to SU.

I was not clear in my question, what I mean is to turn off the tag in SketchUp, after the changes made to the model.

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Ah… If you turn off tags and update the scene in SketchUp, any viewports tied to that scene should reflect the changes when you update the reference in LayOut.

But in the @endlessfix gif there is no scene, that means that after update the reference file the LO viewports will lose the image, although he changed the style and camera position, because they’re linked to last saved SketchUp view? Is this at least one of reason why you and @trent recommend to have the viewport linked to one scene?

Yes. As I wrote before, the scenes give you a baseline for how the model is displayed in the viewports. Without them you have little or no control over how changes to the SketchUp file will affect what is shown in LayOut. You’d just be a cat herder.

So far this is not the way I am experiencing my new Scene-less Layout workflow. It’s early days with 2020 and I’m still learning the ins and outs of working without scenes and I don’t have it all figured out but so far things are going smoothly and if I’m herding cats then I’m herding them quickly and efficiently.

I am able to take a compleatly scenless sketchop model. Make a Layout file with it, make several viewports and pages. Change the camera position ,projection, and view (now a handy right click menu when a viewport is selected). I can set the style and other qualities for each viewport independently in Layout. All the viewports say “last saved sketchup view” because there are no scenes in the file there is no other scene to associate with. As long As I have chosen the camera position for each viewport by selecting a standard position (right click) or by opening the viewport, I can update the model reference until the cows come home. I can add geometry and that new geometry appears in the viewports, nothing else changes. Changes in the camera view or style in Sketchup do nothing to the layout file.

@Charevir I’ve been experimenting with tags in this no scene workflow, and as you guessed if you make a tag invisible in the sketchup file and save that file, then update the reference in Layout, the tag does disappear from the the viewport, BUT… only if you have never adjusted the tag options for that viewport in Layout. As far as I can tell so far it works similar to the camera position, that is if you have never manually adjusted the camera position of a viewport, it defaults to the saved version associated with the last saved view of the SU file. If you manually adjust the visibility of a tag from within layout, it appears to divorce the tag state from the SU file permanently. After adjusting the visibility of even one tag from within Layout, all tags for that viewport and scene are then controlled manually from Layout. I can turn all the tags off on a SU file so there is absolutely nothing on the screen, save the file, and Layout updates new geometry just fine with all tag states that I set in Layout persisting. All tag control stays in layout for that viewport unless you press reset, in which case it reverts to being tied to the last saved view.

Everybody can continue to use whatever workflow suits them best, and I can’t change on a dime either, I’ve been using scenes for years, that was the safe way to go. I’m still feeling my way through this very different way of working. But I’ve frankly been wishing and asking (begging) for this kind of control within Layout for awhile now and I’m excited to explore it. So far I see nothing preventing a scene-less workflow.

so…I guess Ill do it…

Cat herder? spat some milk thru the nose on that one…AND…what a visual image of futility.

sorry for not helping the topic…just had say that I acknowledge that the title Sage is worth more than just SKU and LO wisdom.

Sorry 'bout that.

I find the workflow in SketchUp and LayOut to work well for me. The option to avoid creating multiple scenes for stacked viewports is a big win for me but despite what EF says, I will still continue creating scenes in SU.

Maybe my work is just different, though. I would be interested to see how someone might create all of these views quickly in LO without using scenes. I removed all of the non-SketchUp content for clarity.