Trays in SketchUp

Please don’t double post. I responded to your question in the other thread.

Should SketchUp just assume a user will install the entire same set of extensions ?

Yes.

And all extensions should follow MFC dociking system (or sketchup’s implementation of it) not create their own whack toolbars etc.

I am not surprised. Currently trays are Windows editions only as they are Microsoft Foundation Classes objects.

There is a newer trend in Mac software where “tray-like” interfaces are appearing, but not being a Mac person I don’t know what GUI framework they are using.

This makes no sense at all Sam.
First of all there is no MFC on the Mac and extension usually are written to run on both SketchUp editions (Windows and OSX.) Secondly, API coders do not have a choice, they MUST follow SketchUp’s wrapping of the underlying OS’s toolbar implementation. No one is “creating their own whack toolbars”.

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I can’t say I’m a fan of the Tray system. It introduces yet another platform difference and the double scrollbars are plain annoying. Personally I don’t care about setting up custom trays. I use SU on too many computers and too many versions for setting that up.

my.sketchgup has a really interesting approach where the individual panels have a dynamic height depending on their content (even though I don’t agree with how things are sorted into the different panels, or like the styling of them).

They are easily adjusted so the rightmost scrollbar disappears.

But you can’t have ALL of the inspectors on one stupid “Default” tray, (in order to adjust the “master” scrollbar out.) Which is another reason I could NOT use the web edition.

They were never meant to be used like this (all in one big stack) by Microsoft. It was only called “Default” because they suggested all panels be visible when I user first installed and ran the application.

Oh, wouldn’t it nice if you could have your “setup” on a thumb drive and just plug it in to whatever workstation or computer you’re working at?

Roaming profiles are supposed to do this automatically within the same LAN. This is why they are called “roaming”.

Actually I personally wouldn’t bother plugin in my thumb drive all the time for this. I use SketchUp weekly on at least 3 computers. I just want to get on with whatever I am doing and not bother setting or syncing preferences. I can see though how others would benefit from it.

However, even if your own preferences were synced to all the various machines you may use SU on it would still lead to problems for teachers, students and friends learning from each other with too many arbitrary personal differences to the interface.

? (Head spins 'round and 'round, eyes pop out.)

I fail to see why me enjoying using any software with my preferences, much less SketchUp in particular, should lead to problems with how teachers, students or friends use said software.

We are a bit off the topic here, but I care only about software applications that are set up for a professional interface. I do not and will not support “dumbing down” the interface for ALL users, just so some young school students won’t feel overwhelmed. It’s apples and oranges! These poor lil’ teachers and students can use the silly dumbed down interface that is the web edition (of any software.)

The tray is dated…if you want to be efficient you have to have 2 monitors to keep them 100% open instead to open one and close 3 to get more real estate with one monitor…I think tabs is the way to go…Open one tray and scroll up and down …so the trays are above or below each other.

Fernando

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“Whack” toolbars are things that have their own menu style/interface…
Example:
Estimator for SketchUp.

  • Overall menu window can’t be docked, collapsed/minimised or put in a tray
  • Huge space-wasting logo on the screen at all times
  • Unique style buttons/dropdown menus
  • Only a couple functions can be assigned to keyboard shortcuts.
  • Doesn’t adopt sketchup’s model units (doesnt even support metric units)

This isn’t a dig at Estimator…it’s just the first thing I noticed i had open at this time. There are many similar examples.

I’m like Eneroth …it’s too much effort to manage trays on various PCs and to respond to changed extensions etc, so I just stick with the default (which is OK but not great)

I have a 32" monitor at 2560x1440 and it feels surprisingly crowded a lot of the time :slight_smile: A real benefit would be having Sketchup Trays that dynamically adjusted to the size of the content - EG the Soften Edges, Entity Info and Shadow Settings trays could be slimmer if we have the tray set to a wider format. This means far less scrollwheeling to move menus around when we run out of space.

To Staff: Can there please be a SketchUp interface that allows slimmer/simpler trays (and darker colour theme)? (Adobe software is fantastic at this…)

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just a quick experiment :slight_smile:

Having the same software look and feel different on different machines is always troublesome when you want to show someone else how to do something or get help from someone. There are also good things about interface customization and this doesn’t outweigh them but it should be taken into consideration when designing a user interface.

To me the order of the browser in the tray for instance is irrelevant, as long as it is the same on every computer I use SketchUp on, and preferably the same on my friends’, coworkers’ and class mates’ computers. The order itself doesn’t matter, what matters is to know where things are without having to look for them. This is in my opinion one aspect the web interface has succeed in (even though I don’t like it in general).

This is nonsense and off topic. I have never said anything about overwhelming interfaces in this thread, and even if I had it applies just as much to professional users as school children. The only thing related to teaching I’ve said (which applies just as much to personal trainers as elementary school) is that it is preferable if the same user interface looks the same to both the teacher and the student. Arbitrary differences are just confusing and distracting.

Most users wont change the default settings for their user interface. It’s just not going to happen. Some prefer it to be pristine, some want to stick to the default for consistency between machines and some just don’t bother. Only a handful of people will organize their own trays.

If the interface is designed according to the assumption that you modify it, it is badly designed. It can allow customization but not demand it.

“Whack” toolbars are probably web dialogs, not proper toolbars.

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Hey! YOU started this line of “nonsense”… at least that is how I read your previous statement, quote:

Perhaps this discussion point was not worded correctly, and I’ve taken it wrong ?

Since it was replying to ME , I took the words “your” and “you” to be me personally, … that MY use of SketchUp, … that MY preferences set up differing from the Default, ie, that ME using SketchUp the way I like and I need, … will effect teachers, students and friends.

Sorry, but it does not make sense to me the way it is written, … therefore reads as nonsense to me.

So, I’m wondering if you meant to say “a user’s” and “they”, … instead of “your” and “you” ?
(Ie, it reads as if the subject is me, rather than anyone in general.)

Totally disagree. In fact, I monitored John Bacus’ “Show Us how you use SketchUp” topic thread here in these forums, and witnessed the myriad ways users customize the SU interface to suit their own needs.

Total disagree again. The “U” in GUI means “user”. Users have differing needs and desires, just as they have differing opinions. “One size” does not “fit all”, nor does “one interface work for all”.

ADD: I find it strange that you “Liked” what I wrote here last June …

If a application does not have customizable interface, users will move on and find a product that does.

This is not really the fault of Microsoft and it’s MFC, although they “recommended” (on MSDN) that all panels be opened initially in one “Default” tray.

The SketchUp Dev team could have rejected this idea, and left them all closed as the did when all the inspectors were independent tool windows.

… OR, … they could have adopted a better “initial” layout similar to how I proposed in another “tray” thread circa version 2016, … which BTW, mentions this thread as just another thread of us all repeating the same opinions over and over.

We are not getting anywhere by restating the same old opinions again and again, nor are we convincing each other in the slightest way. We will just have to accept that we think differently and are never likely to reach consensus on this topic.


So, in closing, I have a total opposite belief then Christina and I have always felt from before 2016 was released, that the “default” tray setup should have been all closed or setup similar to how I posted in that other thread post, viz :

Re, the images Christina has shown, … the “Default” tray was never meant to continue to be the way the panels were used. It’s just the way that MS suggested that all panels be shown when an application was first installed.

The user is expected to adjust them, create their own trays, sets of tabbed trays, others floating, others auto-hidden etc.

I have my panels divided into a tabbed set of 4 trays docked on the right:

They are slightly different now, ie, detail name lists (instead of thumbnails) and the panel heights are adjusted so the tray scroll bar is suppressed. (And the auto-hidden trays are now docked to the left margin.)

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I think it was quite obvious from the context in my previous post that you refers to a general person and not you personally.

Regarding user interface customization I think it’s very important that you can change colors in case you are color blind, scale up small elements if you struggle to see them, adjust contrast if you are either blinded by it or struggle to see, and other things that really matters. Choosing how to organize the browsers is in my opinion not that important. It’s a choice for the sake of a choice. It would be more practical if it was designed in a good way from the start instead of expecting everyone to organize it themselves. Since it wasn’t designed to work out of the box a lot of people customize it themselves as a workaround.

Regarding the show us how you use SketchUp thread it would make sense that the people that have customized the interface the most are in general the most eager to show it. It can’t be seen as a representation of all users.

Regarding the post I liked I can’t remember why I liked it but it could have been that it stated trays aren’s saved in templates or because it provided background information to how Microsoft had anticipated the Default Tray to be used.

It was not obvious at all, since it was only us two in that exchange for awhile, and you wrote in the sceond person (which is directed at the first who was me.)

I suggest writing in the third person, when you want to express in the third person, ie directing your comments or meaning towards the general user public.

(It may more easily avoid future misunderstandings and upset feelings.)


https://study.com/academy/lesson/point-of-view-first-second-third-person.html

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I had no idea you could have different trays on different tabs at the bottom, like you have - that is very handy. Nobody in my team has figured that out. We are have just one tray and do a lot of furious scrolling up & down to move between the various functions.

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It has always had the tabbing ability. Even Visual Studio itself came with some of the trays pre-tabbed (if I remember correctly.)

The SketchUp User Guide has a video showing how to make a new tray, and then drop it on another docked tray, so it becomes tabbed:

https://help.sketchup.com/en/article/3000139#arrange-dialog-2016

… scroll down to:

Docking, undocking, and organizing trays

To make a tray float, grab the tray header and drag it off the side of the screen. To doc a floating tray grab the header and place it on one of the tray icons that appear. If you are docking a floating tray over a pinned tray note that you can doc it to the side or add it as a tab by dropping it over the center icon showing the tray tabs.

img