Strange behavoir by editing Groups or Components

advice
groups
componants

#1

I have been told, I don’t understand SU. Very true.

Am I the only one?


#2

Hi. Can you share the file?


#3

For the first image.
Fachwerk-b.skp (2.0 MB)

For the second image I had to upload it to 3DW because the file size ist too big.
It is set to private. Let me know if you can’t load it.


#4

It appears the second model is deleted or private.

Also, maybe it helps to try to explain in text too what problem you are having.


#5

The model is set to public.

  • Editing a group or component it leaves loose edges in first image.

  • Same in second image. The file size explodes and it shows the blue marked frame. There are a lot of loose groups created.


#6

Classic case of mixing layers at the raw geometry level.


#7

The model contains 12 nearly identical window components. I don’t know if they are supposed to be the same. I don’t have much experience with dynamic components but it’s possible that you have used scale tool to mirror the different parts of the building and this made the dynamic components unique (yes dynamic components are not very intuitive).


#8

Right, that’s what SU did, because Layers are not accessible.

My groups and components are made in a user Layer. Editing a group will create loose edges. It’s not on me!

So how is the workflow to keep Scenes working?


#9

Read up on how layers work.
Listen to what others tell you about how layers work.
Don’t blame SU for your errors.


#10

I did, really I did for sure.

So I have to move the group from user Layer to Layer0, edit it, and move back to user Layer.

Is that the correct workflow?


#11

Not even close. Go back and read the help files on layers again.


#12

There is one simple rule for layers:

  • only move groups or components to other layers and leave all loose geometry on Layer0 (unless you know what you are doing)

#13

Here’s what one of my analysis utilities showed on the first model:

1445 primitives found off layer zero
{“Back”=>746, “Rafters”=>69, “Right”=>31, “Left”=>259, “Front”=>340}

For the second model it found:
229 primitives found off layer zero
{“2 Dach”=>25, “A-Fenster”=>113, “1 Objekte”=>87, “2 Objekte”=>1, “Cut B”=>1, “2 AW”=>2}

“Primitives” means edges or faces. Edges and faces should always associate with layer0 else confusion such as you are seeing will result. I know of only two ways that primitives come to associate with other than layer 0:

  • Explicit user action, most often setting something other than Layer0 as “Active” and then drawing edges and faces. Or selecting edges and faces and using entity info to associate them with a layer.
  • A quirk (some would say bug) in the explode operation that reassociates contents with a Group or Component’s layer when you explode it.

The former is purely a user workflow defect. There are several plugins available, such as TIG’s layer watcher, that will correct it.

The latter is a trap for the unsuspecting. TIG’s layer watcher will also fix it.

The second model also has another issue: the Component “Schrank 60x100x180” has some geometry floating far away from the main body of the cabinet:


#14

This may be the crux of the problem. Please elaborate on what you mean by “because Layers are not accessible”?


#15

Why? What went wrong? How to correct it?


#16

We’re only seeing the consequences after the fact. Sorry, but that isn’t enough to deduce how it came to be that way.

Is that divided rectangle recognizable as a valid part of the cabinet that has somehow been mislocated? If so, you could move it back where it belongs. Or is it part of something else that you somehow got into the cabinet by mistake? If you know where it belongs, you could cut it and paste it back there. And if it doesn’t seem to belong anywhere, you can just delete it.


#17

I didn’t explode anything, I modified the group already moved to a user Layer.

Thanks a lot. The first usable answer for me to go on.

Please, can you give me a link?


#18

There have been many many usable answers in many threads that you have ignored or blown off. Please create your ‘tutorials’ as personal workflow.


#19

I added a cabinet component and copied it serveral times on many places in the model. Some of them were scaled or rotated. One cabinet I modified and added groups to close a shelfs. Only the small part in the middle flips around, the other upper closes are ok.


#20

Aaaah, now I understand…