Small Library idea

[Chip_Cookie]

@3DxJFD

he way your 2x8 beams sit now they are cutting into the end short walls anyway (so the second interior 2x8 of the short wall isn’t a beam anyway… so the top and bottom ‘plates’ of your walls don’t have a 2x8 running the entire interior short span). You’re sort of between using hangers (like a deck) and setting beams on the wall. Prwly made this sound confusing ;).

Umm, I don’t quite see where you are going. The longitudinal beams are meant to carry the load to the short walls. The little bits of wood between the beams are there just to make things look neat and make a place for secret treasures. They may not do so in a reasonable fashion. I hope I get to the point where an engineer looks over the plans and says ‘that’s stupid’.

@3DxJFD

Your loft sheathing is jutting into the wall plates. Otherwise, your sheathing is ‘up on the wall’. Not sure I’m recalling correctly but sometimes walls are built on top of the floor (sheathing).

I’m not sure why this would be a problem, but then I am really only sure that I need to lose 20 lbs. So why is this bad?

Thank you tons for your help and humor. I really appreciate it.

Cheers,

Tom

[Chip_Cookie]

Dear All,

Here is the next version of my model Small Library. I hope I have cleaned up all the wacky geometry from my 1/16" mistake.

I have left the new parts as default texture, which will hopefully make things clearer. I am working on the roof framing, and am doing an job of it. I also need to figure out how to get some winders* up there.

Library v2.skp (1.3 MB)

Does anyone have an opinion on the bay window height?

I have included a “proposed” change in the loft floor plan. I am curious what folks think of it. It gives me another 40sq ft of floor space, bring the total added floorspace to nearly 200sq ft. My old machine shop was 200 sq. ft, so it seems sort of extravagant.

Thank you for reading along. I wish all a great weekend.

Cheers,

Tom

*windows

[3DxJFD]

@Chip_Cookie

Umm, I don’t quite see where you are going. The longitudinal beams are meant to carry the load to the short walls. The little bits of wood between the beams are there just to make things look neat and make a place for secret treasures.

If it’s for secret treasures then this looks ideal!

That the Loft Beam sits on the short outside wall seems fine. It’s those “little bits of wood” that seem, different. Those filler pieces could be upright/perpendicular to the wall, so there would be ‘pockets’. But the one on the right in the image (Loft Center Joist) adds to the ‘sumptin ain’t rite’ vibe here. For example, if you are going to finish the lower walls, will the walls on the outsides of the center beams be flat as they go up into the 2nd story but the center will have a small corner to get around the Loft Center Joist? If not, then why is that LCJ right next to the other LCJ that is acting as a ‘little bit’ of header? But if there is finished ceiling, then that finish can’t be between your beams. So, if it were for screwing off sheetrock, it’d be too low. Also, there’s 14.5" between the LCJs. Taking out 1.5" by removing that end one and you could distribute that into the overall spacing (get rid of it unless you need the 16 on center, or move everything over 1.5).

That little line there is sub-contractor debris that they left stray. At some point, if you build and remodel this down the road, you’ll also likely find a dried possum between the wall ‘floor joist’ and the Loft End Joist.

This is the loft subfloor jutting into the wall by ~1’ 11/16:

There is consistency here, because the sub floor juts - you guessed it - 1/16th into the far side wall.

If this building were to have a ‘regerler’ floor, you could just sheet it then build your upper level wall there and tip them up. In other words, the wall could sit on the sub floor (that’s why I said it is sitting up on the wall (plate). That might be okay. Don’t take my advice on how to build this thing. You need to talk to a contractor or building inspector to see how much the bribe is to have your plans certified ‘correct’.

It seems like you’re basically on the right track. A little touch up on the subfloor 16ths. Check those corners and take a look at options for building the top of your wall/floor. Keep in mind how the finishes are going to look and if they work with the beams (which I take you want to highlight) and the wall/beam connections.

[Chip_Cookie]

@3DxJFD

That the Loft Beam sits on the short outside wall seems fine. It’s those “little bits of wood” that seem, different. Those filler pieces could be upright/perpendicular to the wall, so there would be ‘pockets’. But the one on the right in the image (Loft Center Joist) adds to the ‘sumptin ain’t rite’ vibe here. For example, if you are going to finish the lower walls, will the walls on the outsides of the center beams be flat as they go up into the 2nd story but the center will have a small corner to get around the Loft Center Joist? If not, then why is that LCJ right next to the other LCJ that is acting as a ‘little bit’ of header? But if there is finished ceiling, then that finish can’t be between your beams. So, if it were for screwing off sheetrock, it’d be too low. Also, there’s 14.5" between the LCJs. Taking out 1.5" by removing that end one and you could distribute that into the overall spacing (get rid of it unless you need the 16 on center, or move everything over 1.5).

Of course I am still confused. Unfortunately, this is normal. The LCJ that I think you are speaking of is for attaching the sheetrock that will make the Loft Bottom Ceiling (LBC). I plan on the loft framing to be completely wrapped in wallboard of some type (WOST). Below is a picture of the LBC with WOST.

But now that you mention it, exposed beams might be kinda nifty. Hmmm. Maybe just the outside of the beams. I was planning on having LBC lights (thus wiring). I also am toying with a model railroad (HO or O gauge) running through some tunnels in the loft floor. I can dream…

You are correct that the other loft end joists could be small perpendicular bits. Of course, I would love to chat with an engineer about this.

Does this help clarify things, or just muddy the air more with flim jetsam?

Cheers,

Tom

PS. I had a paper some years ago in which I introduced at least 5 acronyms to the evolutionary biology community. I am very pleased to know that 3 of them are still in wide use! Including my favorite, MRCA (pronounced 'merica).

[Chip_Cookie]

BTW, I am very interested if anyone has comments on adding the additional floorspace to the loft. I am teetering towards yes…

[3DxJFD]

Hey - I may have lost the plot on what you are trying to achieve. The way you’ve explained the rock makes sense to me. As long as we’re having fun talking about your model, I think we’re good.

The other issue has more to do with framing techniques. I’ve built houses from foundation to roof… but that was a long time ago and I wasn’t the foreman. So, I don’t have all of the terminology at the ready. Let’s say your outside walls look like they are pocket beams to me and that doesn’t seem correct.

The two ‘styles’ that are more familiar to me look like this (ignore the red arrow… best example I could find in a pinch):

Here beams are connected with hangers (not what you are doing) and set on the wall (what you are doing). But you are enclosing the interior space with shorter boards. That’s why it sort of looks like a pocket beam to me. Not saying this is ‘wrong’. But it seems to me that would be open or there would be blocking.

What I mean about the corners is that the outside sheathing has no place to nail of the corner edge, so the sheathing is a ‘hanging corner’. I think that needs a ‘California corner’, …or something to nail to.

Interesting that you mention publishing in evolutionary biology. I have a psychology degree with a concentration in behavioral neuroscience and an ongoing, primary, interest in ethology. I use Tinbergen’s 4 Qs to frame questions about behavior and so have an interest in phylogeny, ontogeny, mechanism/causation and function. I’m also fairly familiar with applied behavior analysis (dog training!). I’m somewhat keeping an eye on ‘addictive technology’ as I believe we’re living through a time of dramatic cultural change driven, in part, by the introduction of the -nearly- ubiquitous internet. It’s my impression that people aren’t always ‘steering their own ships’ and unfortunately moods and behaviors reflect that. Or what I really mean is that I feel sorry for the kids!

Not sure what MRCA is but if I gather, you’re interested in cooperation. I’d probably be more in the Dawkins camp but I heard that E. O. Wilson has -somewhat recently- become more open to group selection (not sure to how many species this extends). I wasn’t convinced by D.S Wilson on the topic many years ago but it’s not a main interest of mine… but I know who Williams, Trivers, Hamilton, and Axelrod are with just a lot of dust on my ‘knowledge’. My mentor has written a paper on eusocality and humans. If I have you right, I’d mention that people from a lab in Austin recently published a challenge to something I wrote ;^0.

At any rate, I like the idea of a small library!

[Chip_Cookie]

3DxJFD,

@3DxJFD

As long as we’re having fun talking about your model

I think that should be an obvious yes!

@3DxJFD

Not saying this is ‘wrong’. But it seems to me that would be open or there would be blocking.

@3DxJFD

What I mean about the corners is that the outside sheathing has no place to nail of the corner edge, so the sheathing is a ‘hanging corner’. I think that needs a ‘California corner’, …or something to nail to.

Have I fixed these? (updated model in the following post)

I will send you a DM regarding the rest. I don’t think we need to bother these nice folks with nerdery on a very niche topic. In fact, I once threatened to write a book called “Better Sleep Through Evolutionary Biology” in which the first 20 pages were filled with the usual dense ■■■■ from academic papers, then 300 blank pages, and then a literature cited section with everyone ‘famous’ in the field.

Cheers,

Tom

[Chip_Cookie]

Dear All,

With much help, I think I have come close to approaching the final-ish first draft of the foundation and framing for the small library. Below is the model:

Library v2.skp (1.7 MB)

Since this seems to be an ongoing thread, I have decided to formally name the library. From hence forth it will be called The Bubba et al. Memorial Weasel Holler Springs Library (AKA The Holler Library).

Bubba:

Best Regards to all and sundry,

Tom

[3DxJFD]

As a fan of mustelidae and any other animal that plays as adult*, I have to show you this:

I think Aaron is looking up at this thinking it’s a little off. You could use the Move Tool. Click on a corner of the component you want to move and then align it with the corner you want to move to.

You can Move multiple components at once. Use Select and then ctrl+ L Click to select multiple components.

Your corner is now nail-able… but your Loft Wall North and Loft Wall West are over-lapping. You can tell if faces are overlapping by the ‘z-fighting’: That flicker you see. Others might do things differently, but I’d consider removing all of the materials. I think this adds to ‘visual noise’ and may be making it harder to see what you are working with. You could try Color by Tag instead. That may help differentiate things for you.

You can ‘click into’ components and ‘cut them off’ by tracing lines around where they meet other geometry. Or, use one line where they meet and then Push-Pull. You’d want to use another component (or rename), or Make Unique first. Otherwise you’ll change all of them.

I don’t have an opinion about the height of that bay window. It does look like the double header is trying to sandwich a piece of sheathing though. Is that stray geometry?

• I bred a couple litters of ferrets when I was a kid. My female’s name was, “Cookie”.

[Chip_Cookie]

OK, the corner thing has maybe been figured out. I don’t yet know how the gable studs will connect with the end rafters, so I have left them long.

Turns out I am terrible at using the flip tool!

Cheers
Library v2.skp (1.6 MB)
,

Tom

[3DxJFD]

I think the 1/16 button on your computer might be sticky.

Here’s an X ray Style showing the overlapping 2x6s:

I created a bunch of Dynamic Components the last week. For each one I used basically the same rectangular cube. Each one was a copy and paste of the same error (off by 1/16"). It’s a Sorcerer’s Apprentice type situation.

[Chip_Cookie]

OK, I really did fix that, saved it, and uploaded the file. Then I re-opened the file, and the same error was still there! I did some testing, and I could repeat the problem. So, I fixed it, copied the model to another newly opened window (using a default template). I saved it using a temporary name, closed and reopened the file, and my fixes stuck.

So I trashed the old file, renamed the new file, and all is good.

I have been getting this odd dialog box that says something like “This version of the file has been previously modified by another program. Do you want to replace it. Doing so will lose all changes”. I have just been saying SAVE.

Library v2.skp (1.7 MB)

Anyway, I am curious if the fixes stick after this upload.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Cheers,

Tom

[3DxJFD]

Looks fixed to me.

I could see the flickering so I clicked-in to see the corner.

Re-creating the whole model might be a good way to consolidate what you’ve learned so far. You could also start with a new strategy… for example you could work with Scenes as you go (which could help set you up for sending to LayOut for construction docs), or use a ‘2D layer’ to help layout, or maybe make scenes with materials that will be used for renderings and others that are for documents, etc.

Another point on materials is that if they can’t be seen, you don’t need them. This could matter if your computer struggles with displaying your model. You may want materials on the framing members, but finishings will cover them.

Anyway, there’s a lot you could get into and since it seems like you are getting into it: no better time than the present

[Chip_Cookie]

I think I will start fresh. However, I would like to keep the footing, CB foundation, flooring and entry platform. Does that seem reasonable to you?

Thanks tons again for the all the help.

[3DxJFD]

Keeping some elements seems reasonable. You might try copying and pasting from one SU file to another. It’s a good idea to import (unknown) components into a ‘scratch pad’ SU file before they are brought in too (so you can inspect them). So, you could try a couple things.

You might bring those vented blocks up higher above ground level. Rock, poly, edging around the foundation?

[Chip_Cookie]

Dear All,

I am working on version 3 of the library. I have kept the foundation (including the placement of the vents for reasons) and the ground floor floor framing. I decided to do a detailed look at the foundation, etc. Below is the skp file. Before I do a bunch of useless stuff in Layout, does this seem reasonable from a Sketchup point of view. Again, no engineer has looked at this, but an engineer will look at it.
Also, I ran CleanUp on it, and all my tags and associated stuff was deleted and I didn’t notice before saving. So this is just the structural elements with no waterproofing, grade, or rock siding. [EDIT: I have added some of the detail I lost]

Foundation detail.skp (1.1 MB)

Regards,

Tom

[Royce]

I looked at it Chip. I saw that in outliner, you have some things called difference with a box to
the left of it. I was once told by DaveR. to explode those. Then make components like (grade and fill) or groups. You have a short block like that, too. That stuff happens when you use native tools to trim, subtract or other solid tools. Otherwise, I did not recognize anything else. Royce.

[3DxJFD]

I wouldn’t put the floor joists into the cinder block wall / foundation. Makes the floor no stronger and the wall weaker.

If you are using the Outliner you might want to use Groups for like-components. For example, a Group, “Foundation-CinderBlocks”, with all of the cinder block components in it. E.g., Cinderblock, Cinderblock Cap. Maybe another Group, “Framing”, with 2x8 Floor Joists and whatever else in it. That could help to keep things organized (vs. tagging). The groups are also collapsible, which makes all of the components easier to deal with.

Keep an eye on Entity Info. Many times -not always- you’d want your components to be Solid Components.

This Cinder Block component isn’t solid (and that’s a clue that some weird stuff is going on with it):

Here’s a hard to find item! But if you can get them they make putting up these walls a breeze.

Windows → Model Info → Statistics - Purge Unused is a good way to clean up extra components, tags, etc., that are in models.