I’m just starting to do construction documents etc. for my company using Sketchup and Layout. I am having a problem with Layout crashing and I am thinking it is to do with the file sizes. I was hoping someone could take a look at the files and give their opinion. Also would like opinion about models to and what I am doing wrong or suggestions on diff methods etc. Here is a link to folder.
Well, in SketchUp, I see some unused stuff that could be purged and incorrect use of layers.The styles you’ve selected might be taxing your graphics card and that could be a problem causing crashes. My computer doesn’t crash but it sure is sluggish which I don’t normally experience even with large files.
What in particular am I doing wrong with the layers? I was thinking that I have groups and components on one layer then some times nested in another layer. Is this one of he issues you are mentioning with layers? I am not exactly sure how to move around groups and components inside the layers. example would be if I had a second floor parent layer and and a door layer inside that, if I decide I wanted to group those doors with some other doors on the second floor, do I have to explode everything and start over? Bit off topic to my original problem, I appreciate the help.
The key thing with layers is that geometry, that is, edges and faces, should be on Layer 0. Your geometry is scattered all over other layers.
No. Actually putting groups and components on layers and nested groups/components on other layers can be a very powerful thing for controlling visibility of entities in scenes.
No. each door component could be assigned to a “2nd floor door” layer and if you had the door components nested with the 2nd floor walls group/component, you could assign that parent to a “2nd floor” layer. Then, if you turn off the “2nd floor doors” layer, you would make the doors invisible. If you turn off the “2nd floor” layer instead, both the walls and doors would be invisible.
Maybe. The thing is that the cleaner your model, the easier it is to work with and the less likely you are to have problems.
As I’ve been poking around your model, I see also that there are many layers turned on for entities that can’t be seen in the scenes. Those layers should be turned off. They will help improve performance both in SketchUp and in LayOut.
Another suggestion is to set up your scenes with a very simple style. Then when you have your document setup the way you want, change the styles for the scenes, update the scenes and update the reference in Lo. That will actually make the whole process easier and faster.
Your file doesn’t show any issues with modified scenes but I’ll make the statement anyway: Avoid creating modified scenes in LayOut. Modifying the scenes in LO will disconnect them from the scenes in LO such that scene specific changes in the model won’t be displayed in the document.
Ok that all makes sense. Two thing that I am not clear on is the first comment about the geometry being scattered all over the place. Say If I make a cube, turn it into a component and then place it on layer CUBE will that not place all the geometry on the CUBE layer also? I thought I was doing all my actual modeling on Layer0 and when done grouping or turning object into a component and then assigning it to a layer.
Also how to assign layers inside of layers, example…if am working on model and I draw my walls and assign them to wall layer, doors to door layer. Then select all groups on second floor and group them and assign them to layer second floor. If I then add interior windows and assign them to interior window layer, how then do I assign the window group to the 2nd floor layer without exploding it and starting all over again with all the different groups and layers on second floor.
I am obviously going about it the wrong way but not sure what to do different. Thanks again!
No. The geometry stays on Layer 0 which should always be the active layer. Only the cube component gets associated with the CUBE layer.
You may be doing your actual modeling on Layer 0. That would be the right thing to do. If you select the geometry at some point and change its layer association, that would be problematic. Another way that geometry can wind up on a layer other than Layer 0 is if you explode its group/component. When you explode a group or component the entities in the next level down will take on the layer association. That can be leveraged if you explode parent groups/components because the children then inherit the dead parent’s layer. It can be a problem though when exploding to raw geometry. The trick, if you must explode a group or component is to immediately change the layer assignment in Entity Info while the geometry is still selected.
If you do that, you change the layer assignment for those doors and windows to the 2nd Floor layer. They’re no longer associated with the Doors and Walls layers respectively. Instead, you would select the second floor walls and door and make a nested group or component and assign that to the 2nd Floor Layer. Then turning off the Doors layer will make all the doors invisible, turning off the Walls layer will make all walls invisible. Turning off the 2nd Floor layer while leaving Doors and Walls turned on will make only the doors and walls on the 2nd floor invisible but the first floor walls and doors will still be shown.
Go ahead and place the windows in their proper locations. Assign the window components to the 2nd Floor Interior Windows layer if you want. You can then add them to the 2nd floor nested group/component. One way would be to select all of those windows and cut them to the clipboard (Edit>Cut or Ctrl-X). Then open the 2nd floor nested group/component for editing and hit Edit>Paste in place.
Another way to do this would be to open Outliner and drag the window components into the 2nd floor group/component. Use caution with this method. Errors can make things go pear shaped in a hurry.
I think you’re starting to get it. As I indicated before, it’s important to keep your modeling clean and organized as you go. It’s much easier to do that than to fix things later.
Thank you very much. I had no idea about the geometry staying on Layer0. I read about it a ton, just assumed that it was referring to drawing on layer0 only and then assigning object to another layer after. I didn’t think about assigning the objects individual geometry to a layer before I created a group or a component first. Which I am assuming I must be doing or like you mention exploding everything down. Also when I dl models from 3d warehouse I get a bunch of leftover layers that I delete. I select the option of moving geometry to default layer. If I don’t find that particular geometry and deal with it, it is probably part of the problem also.
Back up a post where you say to set up scenes with a simple style, would a person go all the way through layout and stacking the view ports etc, then at they very end change styles in sketchup and update model reference? Or change styles before loading into layout.
One more question while you are being patient with me. The model I am using for layout is made up of two different models from other files. Attempting to use something similar to what Nick Sonders explains with using the reference model in a couple different files to try and keep file size down. In this particular case I don’t need all the extra components inside like you were mentioning as this file will be used for exterior scenes only. Should I be creating a totally different file and erasing unneeded objects, or is just turning off layers usually alright.
Appreciate your help and time, learning a lot with this conversation!
You do need to be discerning about components you get from the Warehouse. Best thing is to download them into a separate file, inspect them, correct the problems and eliminate unwanted layers and such before putting them into your main model. Also watch out for bloated components. There’s a lot of furniture and appliance components that are morbidly obese and need to slim down before being added into models.
Yes. Do all that set up stuff with very simple scenes. Maybe just hidden line, black on white, no sketchy line styles. That will be much faster to deal with during the setup phase. Then make the style changes, update scenes and update the reference when you are finally ready for the pretty pictures.
Generally I prefer to keep everything in one file if I can. If things are going to move around a bunch. Walls moving, dimensions changing, that sort of thing, keeping everything in a single file means you’re less likely to create problems. With multiple files it’s easy to have them diverge from one another unless you are very diligent. On the other hand, if the interiors won’t come into play at all in the document and you can maintain the accuracy between models, go ahead and gut this one. Since only the exterior would be shown, there’s no need for any furniture, appliances, fixtures, etc. You could remove all interior doors and walls and whatever else there is inside. Obviously you’ll probably want to keep a copy of the file with all the goodies included, though.
Happy to help and I’m glad you’re learning something.