Can a company use SketchUp Make to design things with no path for revenue?

This is the relevant paragraph in SketchUp Make’s license:

Trimble Navigation Limited and/or its affiliates (“Trimble”) gives you a personal, worldwide, royalty-free, non-assignable and non-exclusive license to use the executable version of the Software for non-commercial use only. Non-commercial use means: you may not sell, rent, lease or lend the output of the Software or the Services. If you are a for-profit organization of any kind, or an employee of a for-profit organization using the Software or Services in that capacity, you are engaged in commercial activity; therefore, in order to use the Software and Services, you must purchase a SketchUp Pro license.

Obviously, this includes selling the designs and physical products themselves, but what about tools only to be used within the company such as a storage rack?

I realize Trimble probably won’t comment on this and either party’s lawyers could make a case either way, but would like some input from the community.

I don’t know if this addresses your concern, but a myriad of companies are distributing their SketchUp models in the Component warehouse or through their own channels just to allow their customers to design their solutions with them. Your models belong to you so no one is preventing you from posting them. Your customers can then download and install SketchUp to build their assemblies out of your parts, and whether they need to use Pro or Make depends on the nature of their projects.

Anssi

That’s what my question mostly is. Their projects don’t generate any revenue directly, but may help generate revenue. For example: storage racks and carts for their factories.

They do not need to. The terms are quite clear and simple, ie (underlining and embolding by me):

If you are a for-profit organization of any kind, or an employee of a for-profit organization using the Software or Services in that capacity, you are engaged in commercial activity; therefore, in order to use the Software and Services, you must purchase a SketchUp Pro license.

An employee of a commercial company, doing work for that company, must use a Pro licensed edition of SketchUp.

Now the “you” (above) can apply to the company, or to a consultant doing work for the company. So either the company buys the license or the consultant does. If you are a “common law employee” (and not a consultant or independent contractor) then the company should be the one buying the tools. (Refer to IRS Circular E, section 2. Who Are Employees?, if you need to know the legal difference between independent contractor and common law employee.)

I think your inquiry is a bit ambiguous, and you have received answers for two interpretations…

to clarify I propose 3 scenarios, although there are even more…

scenario one:

You are a licensed provider of SU output… [i.e. you **DO** have Pro]

your client may or may not be a licensed provider of SU output… [may have Make or Pro and you DON’T know]

what is your standing if a Make or Pro user re- sells your legal output…

scenario two:

You are a licensed provider of SU output… [i.e. you **DO** have Pro]

your client may or may not be a licensed provider of SU output… [may have Make or Pro and you DO know]

what is your standing if a Make or Pro user re- sells your legal output…

scenario three:

You are NOT a licensed provider of SU output… [i.e. you **DON’T** have Pro]

your client may or may not be a licensed provider of SU output… [may have Make or Pro and you DON’T care]

what is your standing if a Make or Pro user re- sells your illegal output…

My question is, which is most applicable?

john

[quote=“dplucinski, post:3, topic:23696”]
That’s what my question mostly is. Their projects don’t generate any revenue directly, but may help generate revenue. For example: storage racks and carts for their factories.
[/quote]Please reread Dan’s very well presented comments - it seems quite straightforward to me…

Surely it’s academic whether or not a commercial-company’s project that has been done with the assistance of SketchUp Make actually ‘makes money’.
If that project is intended to give that commercial-company a ‘financial advantage’ [of any kind], then it’s ‘commercial use’, and therefore it must be done using Pro.

Designing things like racks or carts ‘in-house’ using Make - which would otherwise have to have been designed by an external designer [using Pro] or alternatively bought-in ready-made from another company [again using Pro somewhere in their supply chain] - gives the commercial-company a financial benefit [ultimately to the detriment of Trimble in lost license fees].
The commercial-company has not paid for something that otherwise they would have paid for [albeit indirectly accrued into the design or supply costs of those objects].

IMHO I think it would be difficult to contrive a scenario where a commercial-company could ever justify the use of Make in-house [or knowing connive with external suppliers to receive goods or services that involved using Make in any way].

Anything that commercial-company does with Make could always be construed as giving them some sort of commercial advantage.

For example, the company is designing then manufacturing a new desk for the local orphanage and then freely donating it to them - they’llstill get a commercial advantage from using Make - because they have not then employed someone who has Pro to do that design work etc.
It is irrelevant that by giving away this desk they perhaps ‘lost $100’ [ignoring tax-breaks!].
They simply ‘lost’ less by using Make inappropriately.
They shouldn’t steal the desk’s plywood from Home Depot, and neither should they ‘steal’ SketchUp.

An alternative scenario is a little grayer…

You are not an employee of the company, but a private individual using Make for non-commercial use at home.
You have freely designed this orphanage-desk using Make.
You convince the commercial-company’s CEO to use your Make based design, for the orphanage.
You freely give them that design.
They make the desk and then they donate it to the orphanage [hopefully recognizing your contribution].
They have ‘lost $100’, and you have not gained anything in this process except some adulation…
But was there any financial advantage gained by the three participants ?
You gained nothing.
The commercial-company actually made a loss in giving away the desk.
The orphanage gained a desk that it would otherwise have had to pay for.
So the only actual financial beneficiary is the orphanage - and they are a non-profit making organization [doh!]

It the alternative scenario above, it would have been notably different if the commercial-company had actually appointed you to do the design - even for free - because then they would have received a financial benefit from your work using Make, which they shouldn’t have taken [at least knowingly].

Although as a ‘[sub]contractor’ your relationship is somewhat different than it you were their ‘employee’.

Obviously had they actually paid you [in money or in kind] to do the design work [as a ‘contractor’] the situation is aggravated - you have inappropriately used Make commercially and they have [perhaps] knowing colluded in this.

Had you been their ‘employee’ to do this then - even if the Make were your own and not theirs - then I think they are liable for letting it be used in-house either way: and additionally you are personally liable if you ‘own’ that Make and have used it commercially in any way…

Diatribe now closed.