ProfileBuilder 3 - Profile offset question

[kirk3]

Question for the Mind.Sight Team, or ProfileBuilder community.

I am building a profile assembly with multiple profiles needing to align at a slight angle.

I sett up 4 profiles in an arrangement horizontally, with the offset from the main origin path within the individual profiles “placement point” input.

I thought that this required offset would then allow me to just add a 5% rotation to each profile, and based on the “placement point”, the whole assembly would align to itself, at the 5% angle.

What was produced instead was the profiles received the 5% rotation, and the “placement point” merely informed PB3 the horizontal offset. In other words, it the “placement point” did not act as an origin for the profile to rotate off of.

Can someone speak to the issue here, why the profiles are not respecting the “placement point” in regards to rotation?

[kirk3]

More info

[rtches]

It will be better if you share your assembly settings.
I ping @Whaat , maybe he can help you.

[DGSketcher]

+1 this is unexpected behaviour which is also present in PB4. As suggested, creating a collection of profiles on the XY plane and then rotating them 5%, PB ignores the rotation and only records the origin point when forming the Assembly.

In order to make this work you need to apply the required rotation to each profile. It may look odd but you are just defining the assembly…

Once you save the assembly it will form as expected…

Should the profile be picking up the global rotation? I think only @Whaat can answer that one.

[kirk3]

Thanks so much for the replies!

I have set up a file with the assembly, profiles and auto-assembly options as scenes.

PB3_Profile Assembly_Rotation offset issue_Example.skp (226.9 KB)

I have both manually assembled the assembly with profiles (manually entering values in assembly interface) as well as used the auto-assembly option, saved this assembly & reintroduced into the model via “assembly browser” & it did not work.

Thanks again for the help & look forward to further insight.

@Whaat

[kirk3]

I have updated this SKP with 2 more scenes. These scenes have the profiles rotates in their settings and manually placed where I need them to align.

PB3_Profile Assembly_Rotation offset issue_Example.skp (251.4 KB)

This is not ideal, as if the profile angle needed adjusting at a later date, it would add more steps to the process.

I understand the intent may be for the rotation of the profile shape only, and then to apply an offset.

In certain specific instance, having an option to allow the rotation to respect the profile offset would be great.

Thanks much for the input!

[DGSketcher]

It looks like you have a solution, but there’s a couple of other ways to look at this if you are only doing a single straight path with the Assembly which may be easier to manage…

1. Form the assembly flat and rotate the whole thing in place
2. Forget using PB Assemblies and just have the profiles collected into a Group or Component

The other thing is, because you are using different offsets in each profile you need to manage four of them rather than one wide (15’) and one narrow (1’), which will complicate any future updating of the profile shapes.

Hope that helps.

[kirk3]

Thanks for the help and consideration.

I am using the assembly to follow some relatively complicated paths, a number of curves that flow on the X, Y, and even Z axis, so I need to get it right.

At first i made the profile paths into a 20’ length component, made it a span between some placeholder empty components. Because it was a span though, where the consecutive components met on the curved path (where the extents of the component met the next set of component) didn’t meet properly, gaps etc… I opted to use the path assembly.

Yes, to a degree I have a solution, thanks for poking around in the file, it jogged my brain.

I had come into this problem before but found some other way to achieve the output I was desiring. I would like to see an option for the profile origin/offset/rotation in the future, if at all possible. I think it can come in handy in other ways.

[Whaat]

Hi Kirk - the approach I would recommend is to not rotate the individual profiles in the assembly. In your situation, I think you should create the assembly as flat and not rotated. Then when you are about to build the assembly, set the axes to match the desired slope as shown. When the assembly is built, PB will respect the axes and orient the assembly accordingly.

[kirk3]

Thanks for the reply.

I pause because @Whaat you are saying not to add individual rotation to each profile, and it seems the only way at this point.

I might be missing something, but I am failing to achieve the desired outcome.

I will walk through a process, maybe I am doing this completely wrong.

I create my profiles “flat”.
I lay them out with distance from world axis, also “flat”.

I select them all, give them a 5% rotation.

I press auto-assembly button.

My result is that all the assembly formed allows the profile path origins follow where the angle is, but the profiles themselves are “flat”.

A different approach:

I make an assembly out of the profiles “flat”.
I give that assembly a 5% rotation.

I add a placeholder component (just something to auto assemble with the profile assembly previously assembled) and elevate the profile assembly.

My result is no geometry edits and a warning: “Component blue axis must point up.”

I am at a loss or I am grossly misunderstanding.

What seems like my only recourse at this point is to:

Assign my desired rotation angle to each profile individually and lay profiles out in the arrangement I desire and then auto assemble:

Result:

I think the way I am needing to go about getting this result is acceptable, I just want to figure out this other way I am failing to pick up on. If there is a different way, that avoids the manual input of rotation angles on every profile, I would love to know that way. So far I am missing a step, or approaching this wrong.

Thanks for the input

[Whaat]

@kirk3

I might be missing something, but I am failing to achieve the desired outcome.

Yes, you appear to be missing the step to rotate your SketchUp axes before building the assembly. If you do so, PB will align your extrusion with the modified (rotated axes) as shown in the image I posted. There should be no need to rotate the individual Profiles.

[DGSketcher]

@Whaat I concur with @kirk3 on this. Rotating the global XY plane before creating the assembly has zero effect on the assembly. The Assembly definition remains relative to the global XY plane. Changing the axis just before building the path simply rotates the XY plane?

Rotating the Profiles from the global XY plane before forming the assembly places the origin(s) correctly, but rotates the profiles relative the global XY plane e.g. zero, unless a rotation is predefined in the Profile settings.

I think the expected behaviour is the Profile definition(s) in the Assembly need to compensate for any global rotation e.g. if the profile is manually rotated (outside the Profile tool), then the difference between the global plane and the manual rotation angle needs applied to the Profile.

We know the workaround, but I will bow to your computational skills as to whether this adjustment is a feasible prospect.

[kirk3]

Thanks for the reply. I documented my attempt at your description, I not getting the result.

Result with global axis 5 degree rotation:

Result with global axis reset to 0 degree rotation:

Thanks much for the help. I could be misunderstanding your instructions, & I am fully aware this could be the case. I have a workaround for the results I need at the moment.

Thanks again for the attention.