LayOut is so close to capturing the CAD user market

LayOut Feature Requests
101

I don’t want a Layout move tool that acts the same as SketchUp – in your specific example – in that if you were to hover over the vertex you’d click and then move the vertex.

Because then you would need to have a collection of geometry that currently forms a connected shape be a group to avoid having to select all the geometry the move the shape geometry on masse.

And then if you need to have a shape as a group, you would then need to double-click into it – like you do in SketchUp – to then manipulate the vertices.

But wait a minute, that’s just like it currently is – to manipulate the nodes of a shape in Layout you have to double-click the shape to access the vector edit mode.

Your specific example Odd – I’d say – is one of inferencing.

Enough of this: Layout must be like SketchUp so we can use it effectively because currently we can’t.

As I said – I’m all for improvements that work in the context of what Layout is but not necessarily to emulate SketchUp or some other software.

102

The one thing I regularly reach for is Guide Lines in SU. If there are any improvements in LO 2025 this would be very close to the top of my list. In Odd’s example it would remove some of the inference uncertainties e.g. what may appear to be aligned or correctly connecting isn’t always true. I don’t trust the inferencing. Under close scrutiny I regularly see points jump from the what was expected because Grid Snap is active, there is a last nano second shift to another close point or the inference just wanders off along a line rather than prioritising the expected intersection.

103

I would say that the inferencing in 2024 is very much better than it has been – as per my examples.

The example Odd shows is the experience that I too would experience prior to 2024.

104

If you don’t know already – a hack to make trimming multiple elements more bearable is to turn the trimming element (line, polyline, circle or rectangle) into a group.

This prevents the trimming object being split into multiple elements itself.

Then use the split tool as usual to trim the lines to be trimmed.

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105

well that works. Thanks. I would want inferencing to work on the line itself, not just from hovering over a parallell line, though. And sometimes it does. Like when I extend the second line. I dont always get snapping to the meeting line to actually snap, though, as one can see when I zoom in at the end.
Screen Recording 2024-11-16 at 10.52.41
In my second extending lines It seems Layout now remembers this direction from the last inferencing, so I dont have to lock it.

In this second example when I try to move more than one vertex it certainly would be useful to get inference locking from an existing line upfront, like in sketchup, as all lines moves together so the trick from above does not work. In this instance ordinary linework passing as guides does the trick though, after a litte fiddling.
Screen Recording 2024-11-16 at 18.38.35
So a little more SU logic would certainly be cool here, I guess.

106

I’m familiar with AutoCAD, as a matter of fact I learned how to do blueprints on paper (back when high schools had courses like Mechanical Drafting and we had the actual massive blueprint easels in the classroom), and then AutoCAD on computers (with the authorization dongle bolted to the parallel port, anyone remember that?)… so it’s not like I’m afraid of the basics.

But Sketchup & Layout is SUCH a more advanced, easy, and FUN workflow, I can’t see AutoCAD holding on to industry dominance much longer. Especially if Trimble does implement the best features of AutoCAD and illustration programs like Adobe Illustrator and CorelDRAW (which is what I’ve used for 10+ years to do what Layout does, and Corel has some VERY useful features for drawing organic shapes and arranging things).

100% agree with FosterArchitect’s entire list, plus:

Leaders with multiple lines (i.e. showing the location of multiple instances of the same item)
Option to “paint dimensions”, i.e. let me click and drag across different items to add dimensions as a batch - or an option to “Dimension All The Things” (with filters/restrictions) and then remove what I don’t need.
Better auto-organization of dimensions, maybe an option
Better page management - see how CorelDRAW and Illustrator do it, no need to invent anything new.
Keyboard shortcuts for more things, such as alignment.
Keyboard shortcut SETS that match Corel / Illustrator workflow.
Keyboard shortcut sets & workplace settings that can be saved as one “environment” (also same as Corel / Illustrator), so I don’t have to re-customize everything on a new install.

Preflight checks and more robust exporting. Sometimes it will randomly freeze on a particular page when exporting to PDF, and then the whole workflow is screwed.

Here’s a big one for both Sketchup and Layout - at least for me, wonder how many people agree - TIMERS and ABILITY TO ABORT any running operation.

How many times did you have the experience of “start something and immediately regret it”? I.e. a cleanup operation or geometry merging, when it’s taking more than a few minutes, you have no idea how much longer, and everything is frozen until it’s done? It would be AMAZING to have an estimated timer so you can make the decision to let it run, take a 5-minute break, or abort it.

Fix the bug splats & have more sensible error descriptions, so users can at least have a clue where to begin fixing things.

Why do vector renderings take forever? There has to be a way to speed them up.

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107

If sketchup could save incrementally, just the few lines that got changed, then maybe Layout could import just that and re-render in milliseconds?

Apart from that I think people probably are bringing in too much geometry to their viewports. And if the handling of “links” in sketchup, geometry from other peoples ifc´s could be imported with proper tag management, then you would not get so bogged down from unnecessary and unwanted geometry in the first place.

108

I’ve been messing around in SketchUp and in the case of something similar to your rectangle and wanting to extend to the line – I can’t replicate what you wish for. I need to infer first from a parallel line. Happy to be shown otherwise.

I don’t have this problem.

In your second example – I tried to replicate this in SketchUp (it was 2D) and I can’t get SketchUp to do what you are wanting Layout to do without some guides.

So SketchUp doesn’t… actually… have the magic inferencing that Layout is severely lacking in…?

As I said – inferencing in Layout 2024 is so much better than in previous version.

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109

hover over line, press shift to lock direction, move tool 2 clicks
Screen Recording 2024-11-17 at 01.45.02

hover over line, press shift to lock direction, move tool 2 clicks, last click is on the line one refers to (not midpoint snap or endpoint snap, but “constrained on line intersect line”)
ddddd

And I agree with that

110

ok – you are working on a 2D plane.

Did you ever use SketchUp to do your 2D drafting?

I was trying to emulate your examples in 3D space.

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111

yes, the easiest way to draw 2D in sketchup is probably to keep it in a group, Inplace where the detail is supposed to go, so, that you can reference sizes in main geometry, and then have that group containing tags in a Tag-folder used for details. You can have specific scenes for the details, and can easily have it separated from the main model. That main model has scenes where the details folder is hidden.

Screenshot 2024-11-17 at 10.24.43
Screenshot 2024-11-17 at 10.24.43802×608 87.7 KB

But the principles of inference locking works also on geometry that are not" well placed" related to the axis system
sss

This is not to say that this is the best method. I too would like to do my building details in Layout. It´s just that, for now, I find inference in LO lacking compared to what I´m used to in SU, and I can’t help trying to do things the sketchup way when I work in Layout.

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112

I’ve always done my 2D details in Layout.

I might have experimented doing 2D in SketchUp around the time Layout was first released.

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113

Great post energy… maybe we can keep this discussion going til LayOut satisfies to easily jump over and replaces the 2D CAD solution. As i said before based on what i know, there is still many 2D CAD users world wide so it makes total sense to “keep on keeping on” to provide faster productivity drafting tools

With Layout providing its current tools to create amazing professional contract documents such as some of the great work
Shared above… would you agree it does deliver therefore…

How would you rate Layout compared to 2D CAD in being able to graphically communicate design and working drawings?
% wise?

Is Layout providing all the tools to get that work done? % wise?

Whats missing? % wise?

Layout should have similar drawing and
Editing tools familiarity used by CAD operators?

Should we all really dig deep and provide
CAD like feedback to Trimble on each of LayOuts existing drafting tools/ their individual purpose, performance, CAD User feeeback and % satisfaction etc.

Finally. How many of us out there
Like to have full hands on control of drawing in 2D using the line or pencil tool ; simple editing and publishing tools and not have to
Be controlled and limited to parametric objects/ software?

I would.say we all want full control of what we all draw whether its in 2D or 3D.
I just love the transition of being able to draw in 2d to them turn to 3d along with the aid of extensions to speed up the modelling process. So.why not have Layout extensions for CAD needs?

That would be phenominal !

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114

Layout is a brilliant tool, but lacks way too many things to even start challenge traditional CAD - No.1 being attentive development and a big ear that listens to user feedback!

The breaking of inferencing being just one example, which has made it almost unusable if not now just extremely slow to work with. The other, given probably 100+ long requested features have seen no attention in a world where development now happens rapidly, would do any current CAD user’s head in.

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115

LayOut is not CAD. LayOut is presentation software that seamlessly interacts with SketchUp models in a format that can be used to create traditional 2d drawings - be them for presentation or for construction documents or for postcards or posters or any other sort of easy to manage graphics.

It’s painfully slow at times. Other times the UI is clumsy and just gets in the way.

If I could easily bring in a SKP model to InDesign or Affinity Designer I would, but I have no desire to export 20 or 30 scenes to various graphics formats and then collate and stack them, and then try to figure out how to dimension them accurately.

It is not designed for automation (linked text boxes that flow, ‘blocks’ or components, proper guidelines and paper space measurement and layout tools, etc.

I never want to see it turn into ‘like SketchUp but for people who do 2d cad’. I think design should be done in SKP, and with a viewport lock built in natively SKP could do this for people who can’t seem to get the hang of working in 3d.

I do want LayOut to use all the normal SketchUp UI and UX stuff - tools that work the same in both, faster drawing and documentation tools, an open plugin environment, and if needed a complete rewrite of the code to allow it to work as quick as inDesign or Illustrator / Affinity Designer - some days I feel like I’m back in the early 90s waiting for QuarkXpress to write to my Bernoulli disk so I can hand the disk to the bike courier to take to the prepress guys across town…

But I love what I can produce with it. I love working in SketchUp and I don’t ever really want to go back to ‘CAD’.

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116

Agreed, that’s my take on it as well. The difference for me is that PowerCADD has always been a joy to work with, not a pain the way everyone here seems to reflect on “CAD.” If I can minimize the amount of time spent in Layout, I can mostly cope with it. Bringing SU content into Layout is much faster and easier than getting it into PC, but if I have to spend any significant amount of time drawing in either, I love being in PC and hate being in LO.

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117

Yes… this is the absolute most obvious thing ever…Make LayOut a universal tool for other software. a Layout Plugin for Rhino, and Blender, …Heck…Sell it to Adobe or Microsoft or something :sweat_smile:

I think LayOut was probably not designed as a product specifically for SketchUp. I’d love to know the real “behind the scenes” history.

Its like Powerpoint for CAD/3d Data.
What if it was like an upgrade to the windows Snipping Tool or Paint

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118

Off topic but I am intrigued, what extra tools are in ZWCad over AutoCAD. Might be a few, so just list your favourite? I have been contemplating switching for a while.

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119

DM me

120

OK, you’re right. It’s off topic. That’s for a new thread.

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