I’ve been a SketchUp trainer since 2010. I published a couple of books on the topic of “Construction Documents Using SketchUp Pro” which has been selling steadily over time since 2020
Here’s an idea for expanding the SketchUp userbase- Possibly significantly.
I’ve come across a lot of potential SketchUp users who would love the advantages of:
Spending less on a way-overpriced yearly CAD license.
Being able to simply draw vector lines, curves dimensions and text easily just like CAD- As in, do what they’re already doing.
Because- if they’ve already paid for a SketchUp license, they would have the luxury to mess around with it until they get to a point where they can afford to make the leap to becoming a serious SketchUp user.
A lot of architects that fall into this category. I believe it’s a huge untapped market.
If LayOut was to become viable as a CAD design replacement, it would be much easier to persuade died-in-the-wool CAD users to make the switch to SketchUp. Many architects use CAD for design. It doesn’t matter whether you think this is an efficient way of doing things or not. it’s not about logic- It’s about habit.
Currently I can’t really recommend LO as a CAD replacement because of two (minor?) things:
When clicking on the “create a scale drawing” tool the fill needs to be switched off by default. If a CAD user sees fills following their linework, it’s a huge putoff- I know it’s small thing but these minor things are what kill a sales pitch.
Make a construction line tool- Plus a circular construction tool (for SketchUp too.)
I could start selling licenses to people who will never otherwise get one.
If anyone wants to discuss I’m happy to do so.
Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to all you over there in America.
Could some of this functionality be served by the adding the ability to lock parallel projection plan view camera position in SketchUp? What is a “circular construction tool”, or a “construction line tool”? Just curious.
There is much to like in LO, but it does just feel like sometimes it’s different for the sake of being different. The labelling tool is one, there isn’t a natural workflow to edit the position of labels, I find myself wrestling with where did I click on the label and why won’t the nodes move as expected. The other one is dimensioning. While basically it’s a solid process I do wonder why there isn’t a running dimension option that retains the base point while chaining dimensions and places the associated text to the arrow end of the dimension. As things are now each dimension needs a start point end point and then the text position changed.
No, this needs to happen in LayOut. I’m talking about current CAD users who want to work in a vector line environment- As close to their normal setup as possible. SU users are used to generating linework in modelspace, but CAD users aren’t.
What is a “circular construction tool”, or a “construction line tool”? Just curious.
The construction line tool is found with the Tape Measure tool which allows you to create a construction line in SU. A circular construction tool would be the circular equivalent, emanating radially from a single point.
I agree there are problems with both labels and dimensions. They could be a lot smoother, and finding grips to alter positions of the various elements should be much easier.
Just one thing- Are you aware of the double-click function with the dimension tool to create a string of dimensions along a wall/ linear element?
Yep. Wrong SU terminology. I think they should change the term to “construction line” now that you bring this up. I suppose “guides” is a shorter word which is better in another way.
Meh, language difference, no big deal, I understand now. “Guide lines” and “Guide Points” has some momentum in SU documentation so it might be what people expect.
I can’t imagine starting a project in 2D but the points you make about those wanting to work exclusively in Layout for that purpose make sense. Although clicking off fill is not that hard, I believe that the fill state (on/off) is a saved property of a given file. If you have fill off and save a file it will be off by default when you reopen that file.
So one could make a template file for starting drawings that has the fill turned off by default.
IS there still a CAD user market? Just thinking. A coworker asked me today an AutoCad related question and it dawned to me that I seem to be irrevocably forgetting about everything I used to know about it. For some years already the only things I have used it are as a viewer and to do some quick cleanup of CAD output from BIM and modelling apps. It would be interesting to see Autodesk’s user statistics - I would guess that their user base and the time they spend using it are both declining.
Yes I agree that’s the right way to approach it as LO is currently, but I’m thinking about the vantage of the CAD user- If I’m showing them something I don’t want to say “go over here and click this thing off first”. Not good when you’re trying to sell a product. A new user wants to see that something is “purpose built” and not just “it would be nice if it did this.” I suppose it’s easier for me to understand this point because I’ve been trying to sell SU as both a product and as a process for the last 15 years.
When you’re a developer or even an expert user it’s much harder to understand these points. They might seem pointless from an SU expert perspective but I’m not talking about selling to SU experts.
This isn’t to disagree, but just to expand on the points made.
Yes, there is. I thought that it might be merely the case in the tech backwater I live in- Ireland- But I have it on good authority it’s also a case in the US.
I still see SO MANY architecture / engineering offices here in france requiring autocad.
worse, in most of the training centre I’ve been giving SU classes they have autocad classes. and I’m pretty sure some of them sell more autocad than SU.
Yes, and it’s a feature I am happy with, unfortunately the current workflow I described for running dimensions means the start point always moves to the end of the previous dimension, so you have to edit the start & text in that scenario.
A lesson that took me a while to learn as a trainer is first go where the learner is at, instead of starting from where you’re at. It’s a skill I’m still learning.
I had a few years of using AutoCAD LT in the late 2000s and fully embraced Layout in the early 2010s.
And I embraced Layout fully knowing that it wasn’t CAD and I’m grateful that it isn’t.
It’s a different way of drawing and if – as you say – some already use SketchUp and would have the time to mess around, then they’d use that time to understand how Layout’s drawing tools work.
As for those people who are new to SketchUp – surely these people understand that they will need to evolve a new workflow. They took time to learn CAD – Layout so much simpler!
I have keyboard shortcuts to toggle fill and stroke on or off “on the fly” – it’s fast.
I had a few years of using AutoCAD LT in the late 2000s and fully embraced Layout in the early 2010s.
That’s very cool. I understand what you mean LO isn’t CAD. I guess what I mean by CAD is a Vector linework tool with dimensioning and notes.
Maybe I’m very simplistic about it but that’s how I see AutoCAD.
Do you use LO in any way as a design tool? The reason I ask is that’s how the CAD users I’ve spoken with about changing over to SU use their software.
Please see the current Layout (LO) requests that we manage at my firm:
General Snapping improvements (although moving node is great!).
Snap to Section Cuts.
Not snap to hidden geometry.
Sketchup (SU) like inference for drawing lines (LO is subtly different).
Components like SU.
Fillet, Chamfer & Extend like Autocad.
Vector hatches – the ability to change line weights of lines in hatches.
The ability to scale line weights universally inside groups by a single factor.
Add multileader notes.
The ability to set the horizontal length of a note leader’s as standard & to stay when moving.
Editing notes/leaders is not as intuitive as most other things in SU & LO. (To be fair, this is a problem in all software programs I’ve ever used)
Prevent notes from shifting in location once editing is initiated.
Improve printer drivers
Shape/fill/stroke selection refinement in terms of clarity in which you are editing.
File size reduction and/or ease in subdividing drawings into separate files.
The ability to turn on/off auto gluing to the ends of lines.
Flexibility to apply lines (& line-weights) only to selected edges of a fill. I.e. multiple sides without strokes
Native Section Cut hatches by material (maybe back-face toggle on/off for material as well) as part of SU but live & editable in LO.
Custom Style folder location does not show in Style within the SketchUp Model Tray in LO.
A cloud/revision line within Layout. Maybe even a Revision management system.
LO plugins.
Paste in Place or paste attach to cursor
When you right click a scene in LO to open in SU, it should open to that scene.
Color by Layer in LO (Similar to Color by Tag in SU)
Layout Warehouse (like SU Model) especially for Scrapbook details.
Browser type navigation inside pattern selection window.
Stop the incessant signing in.
Ortho on and off (F8)
The ability to control dash start position
The ability to change a views scale and clipping mask together.
The ability to embed views into scaled drawings.
Linked text or spreadsheets cannot be edited inside LO. If an edit is attempted then the associated program auto opens for editing so that the link is not broken.
The ability to resize the scrapbook preview window
Function to allow text (after being typed) to be retroactively converted from lower case to upper case or vice versa.
Right click - convert shapes (rectangles etc.) to curve. Instead of having to cut then weld.
Move pattern origin keeping the shape in place.
Create a clipping mask for scaled drawings like with Sketchup views.
Cannot nudge points and lines with the keyboard. Only objects.
Auto scale dimension should match/obey the scale in a scaled drawing.
Center line symbol does not display correctly.
Roll over tool tip showing short cuts and on menu items
Layout should have tabs for pages like SU has tabs for Scenes.
Easy way to auto navigate to/ delete References that are defunct or not needed
Snapping of drawing tools to ignore text/annotation entities
Dimension text box fill/size adjistment (due to clipping)
Expanded set of default line widths (0.1,0.2) and font sizes 4pt,6pt)
Improved table tools including a simple calculator function.
Embedded 3d objexts within a PDF outpit
Linked Styles between Sketchup and Layout.
Its clear that Layout has been designed as a very simple tool, not like AutoCAD. It fine for presenting design concepts.
But i do think that LayOut is too simple and limiting when it comes to professional drawings for permitting or construction.
I still think SketchUp should be the place where geometry is created, so most of my Feature requests are based on interface and annotation/page setout functions.
We use LO for permitted work. It is painful, but doable. Hence the list. I think we have quasi work arounds for a bunch on your list. I’ll have to think through your list to add to ours. We are manually doing #4 right now.
. A circular guide line in SU would be a welcome addition.