LayOut is so close to capturing the CAD user market

LayOut Feature Requests
21

Really great lists there thanks to you both.

I’d like to categorise the items in terms of what I imagine to be priority.
Some I definitely see as fundamental.
Others should be scheduled for implementation on a longer timeline but definitely implemented.
There are some that are desirable but I can see that they probably would be torturous for the programmers to implement- For example opening a scene from LO within SU- However maybe it’s easier than I might think.
The component idea within LO is a definite must-have- I did mention this in a number of posts I made a while back somewhere.
I agree there is a burning need to fix dimension and leader notes editing- There are massive issues with positioning the text box and resulting clipping.
We should have a “LayOut Town Hall” call to sort this all out!

Anyone in Trimble want to chime in?

Thanks for the input.

22

I do my overall designs in SketchUp which quite minimal in detail but will model detail if I have to work how some elements interact with each other.

I then use this basic model populate my Layout file and will do a fair amount of linework detail over and around the 2D views depending on the scale.

I can’t imagine doing design work in 2D CAD – is that what your users do, design in 2D?

I do enjoy drawing directly in Layout and I guess it’s been so long since I did CAD that don’t know – or remember – what the transition is like or if I would find that CAD now has tools that make drawing efficient such that I would think that Layout is lacking.

Don’t get me wrong – I agree that Layout needs keep improving.

1 Like
23

Agreed with all of that.

Architects don’t really use AutoCAD as a design tool, from what I’ve seen…it’s all shifted to Revit/Archicad/Vectorworks/12D for projects, and sometimes SketchUp/Formit/Blender/Rhino for Concept Design. All have pros and cons. Autocad is sometimes used for very simple buildings or adapting repeat designs.
SketchUp remains a highly flexible solution for modelling everything from urban planning, to buildings to landform to interiors and landscapes and arch-viz. That’s its strength.

I work with professionals who use CAD a lot and the things that CAD excels at are the documentation standards required for permitting, tendering and construction.
Also, CAD is typically used today with add-on packages such as Revit MEP or Civil3d/Infraworks, so it’s mostly a documentation tool rather than a design tool.

Think of it as Civil3d to AutoCAD = SketchUp to Layout.

Examples of CAD documentation outputs:

  • Preparation of roading long-sections and cross sections, superelevation profiles (ie draw a road centreline and the software outputs the drawings).
  • Design and analysis of earthworks (modeling to gradients, volumes, cut-to-fill, depths) and landform (raindrop analysis, floodplains/freeboard).
  • Ground structures such as retaining walls (cross sections, long sections and elevations).
  • Road geometry including vehicle tracking (swept path analysis) and markings, signage details, and compound kerb geometry
  • Drainage design including 3d invert/grade levels and flow rates.
  • Property boundary setout including sections with bearings/distances and other technical aspects suitable for Survey Plans with accurate areas and setout points (including arc centres/radii) all geo-referenced of course.
  • construction detailing for things like hard surfaces and foundations where standarised symbols, lines styles, hatches, etc are critical.

It is fair to say that, while SketchUp+LayOut has tools that can be adapted to creating these sorts of drawings/outputs, the toolset has not focused on these areas and requires multiple extensions and workarounds to utilise parametric modelling processes. LayOut doesn’t offer any extensions (other than import of CSV data) so outputs from any extensions often have to be via SketchUp (straight into PDF or Tabular formats).

I can definitely prepare all of the above examples in SketchUp. But it’s laborious and error-prone. Mostly due to the fact that documentation in LayOut is very much a manual process.

1 Like
24

Hi Le_Corb & all,

It’s an interesting subject that is also unearthing how others start a design process & with other CAD software. So, although the topic title is:-

LayOut is so close to capturing the CAD user market.

The fundamentals I guess are now being discussed. Many years ago (1980’s) I started out in employment in the architectural field using the old drawing board. 1990’s went self employed & started exploring CAD software. By accident I discovered DataCAD in a magazine I got through the post & seemed to tick many requirements than eye watering costs of AutoDesk products & ArchiCAD at that time.

Although the promotional price could not be ignored, the key item I was drawn to was that it was developed by Architectural people & just seemed so intuitive. I then purchased SU without hesitation when I saw a YOUTUBE video for the first time by the @Last Software people. I managed to develop projects using both products when the need for 3D models was required.

Anyway, most ‘bread & butter’ projects so to speak I undertake are extensions/alterations to existing buildings. So, I need to site measure up said building & produce a set of plans, elevations & sections etc before the design process can begin.

At this point, this work is done in 2D CAD as quick & easy to undertake & evolve with a lot of detail. Undertaking this process as a 3D model & extracting the typical 2D plans etc for clients & Local Authority Planning & Building Reg approvals in SU & LAYOUT takes me far too much time in comparison. I tried this once ages ago on a small project, but it took me too long in comparison & I couldn’t achieve the same sharp line work detail. I still use SU now & then to assist in design work & 3D elevations etc, but 2D CAD remains as the starting point for most projects.

So for me, it’s not the intricacies of SU LAYOUT per-se, it’s the fundamentals of SU compared to traditional 2D CAD.

I’m still exploring CAD BIM software, ArchLine-XP, as the parametric process with building elements I think ultimately will save time in the long run. However, learning time with any product seems to take a long time to develop.

Therefore, I’m not too sure if LayOut is close to capturing the CAD user market as the fundamentals still seem a distance apart from one another for traditional 2D CAD or even more sophisticated CAD BIM products. I’m not even too sure if the fundamentals of SU could or should change with say, a built in 2D CAD option or parametric building elements, albeit, many extensions seem to achieve good results.

2 Likes
25

Yep. Don’t shoot me- I’m just the messenger. :laughing:

26

There is still a recognisably big userbase of 2D CAD users out there so the way i see it,
Its an obvious possibility to “LayOut” the plans ahead!

2 Likes
27

Agreed James,

As trainers we tend to get a different view to a user- Seeing what’s going on in the industry because we generally talk to more users.

1 Like
28

We all have a tendency to think our own experiences are much more common to everyone else than is the case.

I remember someone here claiming we shouldn’t need 2D drawings any more- His need for SU didn’t require LO- That was fine for him.

The point I’m making is that the practise of designing in CAD is much more common than SU users tend to think.

2 Likes
29

I do all my initial design layout in Sharpie on the back of bar coasters. Everybody should do it that way👍.

6 Likes
30

When in Cork, those would be Murphy’s coasters, of course.

3 Likes
31

It is all about slipping into a trusting familiarity workflow to get technical data completed with confidence

We are always working against the clock and SPEED IS MONEY!

So when comparing design softwares, efficiencies register with our minds
“Ah thats easier!”, "more value and better or “its needing.more refinement”.

I have been able to support clients that are using 2D SketchUP to save time but they
Always discover tricky geometry scenarios
Andntheynwould probably love a feature called 'CAD MODE"

Maybe one day. LOL

1 Like
32

How do I get your book in Australia please?

And yes, I agree that SU and LO could one day replace what I do in AutoCAD, but there’s still a long way to go… Layout is so frustrating with so many things and processes but once you get the hang of it, it works quite well. Sketchup is obviously amazing to model with compared to AutoCAD. And obviously they both lack plenty of good features that AutoCAD and Revit have.

1 Like
33

I’m a Beamish man myself. :wink: :laughing:

3 Likes
34

Hey thanks for enquiring. I checked the availability in Amazon Australia and it’s $99 AUD which I see translates to approx $65 USD, which is $15 more expensive than Amazon US. Some day I’m going to do a video series for the Construction Documents course but I’ve been saying that for quite some time now. However, I’m working on another collaboration that I’ll announce when the time comes.

https://www.amazon.com.au/s?k=construction+documents+using+sketchup+pro&crid=58THY3T4ZXEA&sprefix=construction+documents+using+sketchup+pro%2Caps%2C276&ref=nb_sb_noss

35

Hi. Having been a fan , user and Autodesk trainer in my past years. I now see Zwcad a better solution to AutoCad now its similar and more powerful tools in there. Revit is the animal requiring taming … tsk tsk

2 Likes
36

LO drawing tools evolve a bit every version, but what we need is to be able to reuse our SU knowledge as much as possible

Why not let it be just Sketchup flat on a paper, all the same concepts, all the same logic. Maybe there are better ways to do 2D than that. But as we then would not need to learn it, and not ponder on workarounds and strategies on how to draw things, we probably would work faster.

2 Likes
37

I’ve never had a problem with how SketchUp and Layout work differently.

That Layout is different from SketchUp has not prevented me from working fast in Layout.

2 Likes
38

I consider myself a fairly experienced user of SU/LO. I believe in a one-model design process where my single 3D SU model produces all my Plans, Elevations, Sections, and Interior Elevations, and with Enscape I also get all my renderings, animations and VR from the same single model. I change the model, and all my reference outputs update as needed.

In order to keep my models efficient, I do not detail everything out in 3D. For that, I rely on my old-school habits and create 2D details in LO like I used to in AutoCAD.

For this purpose, I for one, would welcome more CAD like features in Layout. Basically like AutoCAD Lite with the super power of referencing SU 3d models.

Besides architecture, I also use LO for Laser cutting/engraving projects as well as signage design for the various volunteer organizations I am a part of. With that, I also welcome more graphic designer features similar to Adobe Illustrator or Inkscape.

As I have stated in other posting, I believe software should let people draw/draft/design however they like, and enabling more features empowers all of us to create in both old and new ways allowing innovative combinations and workflows to emerge.

4 Likes
39

That detail level looks amazing @ArchyVR. This is where I would like to be at with detailed design output in LO but I have struggled to find the time (and love) for it.

I am happy with some of my output, but I have to use SU and LO for small jobs only as I find it takes too long to get the model looking good enough for detailed 2D views.

image
image1253×811 195 KB

5 Likes
40

With the exception of the renderings, this is exactly the same way I do my commercial architecture projects.

3 Likes