Landscape Design & Rendering Best Practices - Looking for advice with a very high poly model

Wow cool!! Thanks for sharing all that!! I’ll definitely check it out. Nice work!

There’s no special tricks about sending from SU to LayOut. A few tips to consider to help keep the process moving efficiently:

  1. Hide the edges of the trees (looks like you may have done this already)
  2. Put the leaves on their own Tag so they can be toggled on and off. This lets you save two scenes: one with leaves on and one with them off so you can switch back and forth as needed without slowing performance. On that same note, you may want to disable scene transitions so that switching between scenes is faster as well.

    Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 11.10.10 AM

What problems are you having in LayOut specifically? You want to make sure you’re rendering them as ‘Raster’ and not ‘Vector’ - vector would lose the tree textures anyway so there’s that too. Again, if the scenes are saved in SU and your tree edges are hidden then it should place and display fine in LayOut.

Yea eric, it’s working great in layout, layout updates the reference actually very quickly so I have really no complaints about the layout speed given the poly count I posted above (fortunately). All of my layout viewports are in raster actually, except the wireframe overlays, those are in hybrid. I think one thing I’d love more specifics from you on your course and from Sams methods mentioned above, is the best practice for proxy situations or no proxies?.. So you say hide the leaves and put on their own layer? For positioning the trees and vegetation I’m guessing is why you have them on a seperate layer so that you have a realistic trunk and object to move around as one is moving vegetation around? Should I do that instead in comparison to making a generic very basic shape or 2d face me of the object and hide the tree and show that object I made when I’m moving vegetation around? Than when I’m ready to render, I can wait the time layout needs to render the high poly geometry in full, but only once I’m totally ready for that, so in the mean time I have these light weight representations of the objects to move aroudn and place and I can periodically toggle on the high poly vegetation to see how the model is looking as I progress through it? Is that something similar to one of the reasons you said just use the trunks, is it for placement and a snappier model?

Lastly, when should I use proxies? The way I see it is I should use proxies for things that can randomly skattered, if skatter can do it, probably best to just use skatter, in the cases where I need specific placements, I’m guessing the best workflow is have the objects not be just proxies if I want to eventualy render them in layout than they can’t just be proxies, they would than have a 3d object in that component that would show up in layout when I’m ready to render and I use the lighter face me and plan objects to help me place the objects and keep the model snappy during the design process… Is that correct? I feel like that’s right from all that I’ve learned above and in your course, but clarification from you on this would be awesome!!

Lots of questions here so I’ll do my best to answer:

Yes, but keep in mind Layers are now called Tags in v2021. And yes, keeping only the trunk(s) visible allows for quicker placement and still retains some sense of size/scale so you can position as needed. Adding a 2D FaceMe (or Billboard) image inside of the tree component accomplishes the same thing…this just adds and extra step as you have to create or import that billboard image and assign it to its own Tag.

See below where I combine 2D plan view symbols with 3D render-ready proxies…that way I can use the same component for both planting plan and rendering by toggling either Tag on or off:



This is a tricky question. Technically, SU doesn’t use ‘proxies’ unless you are sending your model to a rendering engine such as V-Ray, Thea, Enscape, etc. This is because a true proxy is essentially just a low-poly placeholder inside of the model with the high poly geometry and materials saved outside of the SketchUp model and then loaded back in only at render time…thus bypassing SketchUp entirely. Using Skatter to generate proxies works the same way. They won’t show up in SketchUp at all unless you ‘generate’ them…and if so you, you’re back to where you started with all of the high poly assets loaded. Skatter can be used without rendering but that’s just for the placement/distribution and not the proxy creation.

I would recommend not using the terms ‘render’ or ‘proxy’ if you are just showing a trypical or default SketchUp model view in LayOut as your end product. Those terms should be reserved for render software workflows as noted above. I think that’s where some of the confusion lies in this thread. Think about it purely as an exercise in: A. choosing the right size/look plant model from 3D Warehouse that won’t overload your system…and then B. Using Tags to control the visibility of some of the plant geometry (ie leaves) so that while working, SU doesn’t have to strain from the extra poly counts. You can also assign plants to planting ‘zones’ and group and tag them…that way if you have a view that only shows part of the garden, you can turn off the tags for everything else that is outside of the camera view.

Yes. Exactly. Seems like you’ve got it. Let me know if you have any questions once/if you decide to pursue a more advanced rendering extension and we can explore it further.

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Not to say it isn’t represented on the Trimble site, but it WOULD be nice to have a link at the top of the forum page. People refer to it quite a lot and maybe it’d be visited more by those seeking answers.

That’s great feedback and aligns with some of the things that Sketchup can work on to better market the products! I think sketchup is doing quite well with the marketing now, but there are certainly some key things to do to improve upon. Your comment is one of the subtle but effective things they can do to get their name out there more I think, or maybe a mixture of what you’re saying and what they have currently ! @Mark

Eric! Thanks so much! I’m actually very familiar with exactly what proxies are and how to use them in other scenarios, getting used to the plant thing though has been a challenge. I use enscape to render out my projects when I do renders. My summarized concern is that I was trying to figure out what I need to assign to my higher poly trees and vegetation, is it 2d symbols top and side view, is it also creating a proxy to swap if needed where the landsacpe becomes too big to handle, even for layout to render the 3d objects, in that case I think that’s when the proxies are required, so far at 18m polygons, layout handles it quite well when rendering, within 30 seconds which is GREAT! But that same model if all plants are shown and turned on in a scene, it’s too laggy to manage, so hiding what I don’t need as I do in every other aspect of my design process with scenes, is fundamental with the landscape stuff.

I understand everything you’ve said and thanks to you and your sketchup campus video and all the people who have commented here, I think I know what I need to do for the best workflow when making a landscape in sketchup. Thank you so much to everyone, I think this post is seriously going to help some people who are not as familliar with all the stuff we’ve talked about in this thread.

Cheers!!

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Again, as sam mentioned above too, the possibility to use a wireframe overlay in layout over top of a rendered image imported into layout is a wicked idea for dimensioning in layout in the odd scenarios that sketchup or layout can’t handle excessive geometry. 18m for layout to render in 30 seconds is pretty great though, so for my size projects I may never need to do that! That’s a trick and a half, thanks sam. Thanks guys.

i generally avoid the limitations and dump the model into Twinmotion adding all the heavy poly entourage there… [free, quick and very capable]

I have a very simple face me tree and palm that I use for all my sketch models, they have a plan and elev image which I toggle on and off as necessary in scenes…
Use a simple random scale and rotate extension to break the uniformity.

Finally, with vegetation… if you have a high poly render issue , TURN OFF receive shadows on those components… you can still have them cast shadows if that is needed.

typed on my phone so couldn’t add examples yet.

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I’d love to see some photos of the style you use for your 2d face me components? I see two styles, well for me anyways I see two I’m interested in. The first is 2d images that there are abundance of in the 3d warehouse and other sources where the 2d face mes are a photo looking object, vegetation images. So they would look realistic… The other style I see a lot of is vegetation that has a more pastel colour look. I think I’m trying to go with the more pastel style look for the 2d face mes because it will keep the file mb down than, the images are usually near 1mb whereas the 2d face me pastel coloured looking ones are around roughly 300kb on average or so… However, when I hear how sam has a file size of 1000mb, I know layout can render that well, in my experience, it’s the high poly I don’t want… Since most of my projects are a realistic looking style, I wonder if I should just go with the photo realistic 2d plant images, this is only going to be used if I don’t want to show full 3d objects because perhaps my model itself and buildings are too low poly and unrealistic looking for simpler projects so I don’t need a high quality 3d model to show than… The 2d face mes top and bottom symbols are more of a moving things around thing for me, than I turn on the 3d objects when Im’ ready to render… If I have a model that has a lower quality of design with very simple objects, I don’t think I want the photo realistic 2d face mes or the ultra realistic 3d objects, than I’d want a pastel coloured looking one… You know, I think I’m going to do all of them. I think I’m going to have a component that is the 3d tree for example, a simple top and side symbol which looks kind of pastel coloured and than a component top and bottom symbol that is a photo image simple face me, now I get the best of all words if I have a project that is modelled very simply and not looking realistic or if I have a proejct that is realistic… It sounds complicated, but I’m just adding one more option to the mix, which lets me choose a photo realistic face me symbol or a pastel coloured looking one for simpler jobs… Hmmm… This is hard what kind of style I want to set for myself… lol

I LOVE this style

You see it’s more realistic though. Perhaps I just do the realistic face me objects and disband the pastel coloured ones…

Here are those 2d faceme trees in an urban development schematic design from 2015 (18Mb)


same model a little close

A bit of transparency added to the trees for more visual interest… and some colour changed in the component to simulate different tree species

High level view with both tree plan and elevation turned on to get a more 3d form… a bit over saturated and dark though [ watercoloured filter using fotosketcher ]


and similar lower level view, [plan image tag turned off]
here are the components… welcome to review and or use
Tree_2D_Schematic_Palm.skp (82.5 KB)
tree-01m.skp (132.0 KB)

Very easy to take into Twinmotion… it has a replace component action that quickly substitutes these lower poly components [trees, cars, people] into high res native TM objects, alternatively sent to 3D visualisation studio for marketing renders and video

mostly built now Google Maps

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Cool!!! Thanks sharp! Awesome photos, great work!!

My thoughts on Proxies:

I agree with Eric, terminology is “Proxies” = substituted by the rendering engine, when exported.

A proxy can be a low poly version, a version without leaves, a box, a symbol, or a single line or point…whatever you want. Use proxies when you have multiple components of high poly objects. this coud be entire trees, or just clusters of leaves within a tree, or clumps of grass. Or an entire forest.

Why model 10,000 leaves on a tree if you arent even exporting those leaves to LayOut or in any other view? Just replace a “Leaf Cluster” component with a proxy. Most 3dW components can be easily converted using this method. Then you can easily have a tree with 1million faces and SketchUp only sees it as a simple component.

One recommendation I have regarding proxies is to make them somewhat similar to the real objects - identical scale and axis, of course, but also use the same material (so that you can adjust it , name it, swap it, within SketchUp). Because with rendering, you will find it important to set up your scene’s materials, to rename them and organise them and apply effects - you want to be doing this in SketchUp, not the renderer.

You may also want Sketchup objects to cast realistic-ish shadows , so a “blob” bor box usually wont work as well. Keeping a simple tree form helps here, so a 2.5d component is ideal. I’ve done 2d View trees with PNG textures that are created by rendering the fully detailed tree, so that in Plan or Elevation view it appears as if you are looking at the rendered object.

Another technique is to use Plan View symbols as your proxies- when doing so, lift them above the ground surface, so you’d get a symbol placed on a stick (stick = a vertical edge meeting the ground, which is the origin). Shrubs could be lifted on sticks by 300mm above the ground, trees by 5m or so. This allows easier selection of objects and modelling without encountering too much clutter on the ground plane. 99% of the time you will have a 3d surface as the ground (not flat earth) and the “stick” allows all objects to be “dropped” (DropGC) onto the surface at the correct height. Without the stick you get collisions that result in floating objets when rendered.

Note that, for proxy substitution, most renderers want sketchup to contain at least one object (high poly) in the SKP file. In some cases this doenst have to be physically placed into your scene, it can be contained in the SKP file’s component library. Some of my scenes have 1 tree/plant loaded for each type of tree. If you have 50 types, then that’s a lot of geometry. So keeping those objects ‘off camera’ and in their own Component allows you to delete that component (to lighten up SketchUp) and re-insert it prior to rendering. This is very important when you get to large and complex models (like 1gb).

Some renderers can switch out a low poly model in your scene for a high poly version -using an external library. that’s getting more advanced, but well worth investigating if you renderer can handle it. Others (like Lumion) swap it out in the renderer so you never need the object in Sketchup in the ifrst place.

You have to experiment with this stuff, use a combination of techniques and settings suited to your purposes… It’s often a case by case assessment.
There’s no “best workflow” for every type of project/scale and style.
(just as there is no “ideal poly count” for a tree).

@eric-s I would love to see some of SketchUp Pro’s default component library replaced with higher poly versions (trees) perhaps with seperate tags for leaves. PCs are a lot faster than they were 10 years ago (just check my thread on the new Iris XE). The idea behind the Pine Tree model in the Sample Library is great… but the execution is very “2006”.

Also, somebody should try to rescue the excellent 3dArc Studio TreeMaker extension from obsolescence. I have to maintain a 2018 copy of SKP just to use that extension :frowning:
I made a lot of my own trees using it!

Excellent demo of Fotosketcher’s abiity to make those replica trees look less replicated!

Have you seen the laubwork sketchup extension for vegetation? It looks amazing. I am familiar with proxy swapping, enscape does this for me currently, I haven’t made a proxy for enscape yet that references another file on teh computer, but with some minor research about a month ago, I can do this in blender by exporting the file to a certain file type I believe and some other steps, so I’m already into that topic, just have to figure it out now haha… Your advice is amazing. I can only imagine how useful this will be for people who are generally intermediate with their skills in sketchup or begginers too…

Also, yea drop gc is a great plugin, I’ve used it a few times now. Btw, if you haven’t tried the repeat component plugin, it’s a total game changer for adding window symbols, door symbols, trees, any object, HUGE time saver. Check it out if you haven’t, anyone would benefit from that plugin, like the joint push pull tool.

It’s funny how intuitive and simple in a way sketchup is, yet how absolutely deep and complex it can be too with all the extensions out there and workflows. Architecture is a MASSIVE knowledge fest.

Talk about awesome tree and vegetation resources. Great video with a ton of awesome references for where to download vegetation resources for free.

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Who will build the metaverse?

#unreal!

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