64bit SU to render without crashing (4GB ram restriction)


#1

using SU with Thea Render plug-in and during the rendering process SU keeps on bloating memory and freezes when reaching the 4 GB memory hard deck, which is the limitation of SU being a 32bit app… Which is inconvenient and frustrating to say the least.

Suppose we are in 2014 where 64bit OS are common as well as the demand of apps being able to process past 4 GB RAM, hence wondering when one could expect SU reaching modern times and 64bit as app?


Rendering Issues
#2

K_M: FYI, I have not checked for maybe more than 1 year but it is not possible to buy A SKU version of a windows machine that uses the total 64 address space=> reason MS does not have the capability to test such a large machine; Have you checked to make sure you have the paging file set correctly; The same for the other versions of encryption.
MS made a significant change to the task manger at VISTA and up, start task manger, pick the performance tab(?) and on bottom right then select resource monitor it will then show other tabs on left giving much more info related to you system. SU probably not allocated 4GB by the memory manager because of all the other apps running, you may have other problems?


#3

to my understanding (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx#memory_limits) WIN 7 64bit edition can address RAM in the range of:

Starter: 8GB
Home Basic: 8GB
Home Premium: 16GB
Professional: 192GB
Enterprise: 192GB
Ultimate: 192GB

There is Ultimate on this rig, which is fitted with 32 GB of RAM and 8 GB of VRAM, which neither can be addressed by SU with a rendering plug-in like Thea. And thus SU 32bit being a bottleneck, also to my understanding addressing only a single CPU core, even on multi-core rigs.

There is plenty of RAM on the rig and no issue with paging file or any encryption. There are certainly some other 32bit apps running (eating out of the 4 GB limit) and thus SU does not make it to the full 4GB but starts freezing at around 3 GB, not recovering and can only be closed by crashing it.

The SU model is about 75 MB and when opened SU is committing around 650 MB of RAM. Starting the rendering process with the Thea Render plug-in SU is bleeding RAM up to 3 GB and then freezes - as SU being a 32bit app and having reaching the address space limit.

From other threads in the net it seems that the SU developers are aware of the matter but not taking to develop a 64bit SU version… Which is strange as the app (Pro) being marketed as a professional 3d modelling tool, yet neglecting the need of a 64bit version.


#4

I’ll say one more time: 1) SU does not allocate RAM it is the MS memory manager. See the resource monitor that would be noted. Memory is allocated with different flavors of private bites, shared bites etc and is usually allocated in small chunks called working set and how often that is re-allocated depends on number of factors; 2) All device driver allocation subtract form the RAM usage so the 8 GB of graphics RAM has reduced total down to 24 GB and of course all the other running programs+ drivers reduce that further; Su uses only single core and there even test results posted showing single core vs mulit is faster for programs like SU, it dpends on the specific application.
G day


#5

WIN 7 64bit cannot assign more than 4 GB RAM for 32bit apps, which SU is. Subsequent if SU would be 64bit there would be no such bottleneck and SU would not freeze with a render plug-in hooked in.

Not sure how in your reasoning the 8 GB VRAM (GPU) gets suddenly deducted from the 32 GB of RAM (CPU) - both are separate entities - the 8 GB VRAM a solely dedicated from the GPU.


#6

remarkable to see developers of render extensions relying on the limited address space provided/hosted by SU x32 and constantly claiming/demanding for a 64-bit version since years instead of just simply develop their own 64-bit application with an extended memory management.

For example split into a 32-bit plugin for SU which serves as a front-end for configuration purposes etc. and which then communicates the render job to a windowless 64-bit executable ‘worker’ apllication doing the render stuff and replying the raster data to the plugin when finished.

just wondering,
Norbert


#7

I am not a coder and thus have no inkling about what you saying. but the beauty of the Thea Render SU plugin is that it renders real time inside SU, incl. rotating/moving inside SU, which makes it versatile and very handy/convenient. Not sure that functionality would work the way you suggested.

I find it rather remarkable that SU is not developing/compiling a 64bit version and let the user decide which flavour to utilize in the end…


#8

Memory management in widows is much more complicated than most think http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2008/07/21/3092070.aspx
I guess you will get the 64 bit SU before long. I seem to remember I read MS will be phasing out the 32 bit app support soon.


#9

could be - heard that Mozilla got a bit jumpy of having side-lined the 64bit development of FF after MS provided recently the technical preview of W10; rumour has it that w10 will be released only as 64bit flavour with no support for 32bit apps. And that Mozilla is now scrambling to get a 64bit FF out by latest March next year.


#10

Finally and gratefully the 64bit has arrived and since then rendering of complex models works just peachy. Thanks to the developer team for the delivery!