When did Layout become a dumpster fire of stability issues?

[Anssi]

@RLGL

I really would like SU to provide the checksum and a full installer instead of using a live connection to fill in some of the files.

I understand the “offline” installer is the full installer.

[RLGL]

@Anssi

I understand the “offline” installer is the full installer.

I had the offline version provided by SU support. It should also be an option on the download page!

[Anssi]

@RLGL

It should also be an option on the download page!

There is a link but IMO it should be more visible

[RLGL]

@Anssi

it should be more visible

I know I am old but I must also be blind, can you point me to it.

[MattDev]

There’s a post on the forum here about the updated object snapping references, if that’s what you’re referring to by “an update of references which is no longer automatic”. It did seem broken to me at first - and it wouldn’t be the first feature Trimble broke on a new release - but then when I got the briefing, I can see that it’s a bit of an improvement.

LayOut 2024 Object Snapping

Yes. On my setup, stretching the viewport to that line will not give me any kind of “snap”. If I move the line with arrow keys 1 tick up, and 1 tick back down, then it will snap to the line. If I draw a line just randomly, not connected to any SketchUp geometry, the viewport will snap to the line. I have tested it in a couple of Layout files and they repeat the behavior.

[izaacpost]

@garzonetto

I was legitimately curious if overall, in day-to-day use if anyone was experiencing increasing freezes,crashes, bugs, or strange issues with increasing frequency. I didn’t need help figuring out a modeling issue.

I think you have valid concerns with layout, but people might be acting defensively about the tone. Layout could use a lot of improvement. Sketchup itself is a great modeler, but I’ve been actively learning new programs to hopefully bypass Layout’s faults. Some people might not have much experience with page layout software, or might use layout for different purposes than we do.

Overall though, I have found layout to become increasingly stable over the past few years, at least on MacOS (both intel and Apple silicon). I see that you are on Windows, so maybe it’s a different stability picture on that platform.

The UX makes for slow, duplicative work, layers aren’t powerful, and mapping line weights to Sketchup tags requires setting up template files and carefully choosing the hierarchy of how your tags are organized to achieve any reasonable result in terms of line weight. Layout is super easy to learn, but very hard to be fast at, at least compared to any professional page layout/CAD paper space program that I have ever used.

[JQL]

@izaacpost

The UX makes for slow, duplicative work, layers aren’t powerful, and mapping line weights to Sketchup tags requires setting up template files and carefully choosing the hierarchy of how your tags are organized to achieve any reasonable result in terms of line weight. Layout is super easy to learn, but very hard to be fast at, at least compared to any professional page layout/CAD paper space program that I have ever used.

A nice description of Layout and what to deal with.

Layout entities should have a manager or outliner: managing text, dimensions, leaders, linework and viewports shouldn’t be this hard.

At the very least, we should be able to select or filter the selection in a page or all document, ao we could assign layers and styles to pbjects like all text in a page.

[DGSketcher]

There’s a huge amount of small basic improvements that could be made to LO, it’s a shame development is so slow.

I realised today that I can’t turn dimension text fills off without picking each dimension individually.

Why can’t we label to show the Tag / Layer name or material?

Adding a leaderless label or even modifying the text tool to associate with its placement point would be great for things like windows & doors in elevation.

[JQL]

@DGSketcher

Adding a leaderless label or even modifying the text tool to associate with its placement point would be great for things like windows & doors in elevation.

I’ve quit asking for that.

[jlo1]

@ateliernab

pretty sure it was a Tuesday.

It’s always done on a friday before a holiday!

[izaacpost]

@DGSketcher

There’s a huge amount of small basic improvements that could be made

I 100% agree with you.

@DGSketcher

Why can’t we label to show the Tag / Layer name or material?

The (slightly) good news is that there technically is a way to add tag and material names but it only makes sense on dynamic components or things you will reuse frequently because it’s a pain in the butt to setup. I’ve done it in the past, but for some reason it didn’t work for me today, anyway, this is how you can do it when it behaves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjjO_qGP1Gw

@DGSketcher

modifying the text tool to associate with its placement point

I would use the leaderless label or a text label that can inherit properties from its insertion point all the time. I create my own leaderless labels by making the leader line invisible, but it means you have to remember to move both the leader point and the label—and it is difficult to resize the leader’s text box in such a configuration.

My other gripe—and I’m sure people will say it’s just something “wrong” about my workflow—is that if you have scaled drawings on multiple layers in Layout, and they are all scaled identically, why does layout still struggle to determine the appropriate Autoscale? I could buy myself a Lamborghini if I got paid $100 for every time Layout dimensioned the height of a house to 3" tall. I know there is a manual scale setting—but since manual scaling is set per individual dimension line instead being editable as a class (or property grouping) it’s easy to forget that you have a mix of auto-scaled and manual scaled elements which will present an issue if you ever adjust the drawing’s scale.

[DGSketcher]

The thing with accessing Tag Name and using components is a lot of my modelling is done with groups. Changing everything to components just adds to the workload.

@izaacpost

I create my own leaderless labels by making the leader line invisible, but it means you have to remember to move both the leader point and the label—and it is difficult to resize the leader’s text box in such a configuration.

And that sums up why I think the ability to create leaderless but associative labels needs improvement. It’s not just for doors & windows, it applies to labelling views, room spaces and any other large area where having a label off to the side doesn’t visually make sense.

[Alan4]

@MattDev

There’s a post on the forum here about the updated object snapping references, if that’s what you’re referring to by “an update of references which is no longer automatic”. It did seem broken to me at first - and it wouldn’t be the first feature Trimble broke on a new release - but then when I got the briefing, I can see that it’s a bit of an improvement.

Yes. On my setup, stretching the viewport to that line will not give me any kind of “snap”. If I move the line with arrow keys 1 tick up, and 1 tick back down, then it will snap to the line. If I draw a line just randomly, not connected to any SketchUp geometry, the viewport will snap to the line. I have tested it in a couple of Layout files and they repeat the behavior.

No, I think about file reference, or SketchUp file reference, that are not updated automatically as before

[endlessfix]

I think you should unpack this problem a bit, I have not seen any difference in the handling of references. Can you describe exactly what used to happen and what happens for you now? Or include a layout file that won’t update here, perhaps we can find a solution.

[bmike]

@endlessfix

I think you should unpack this problem a bit, I have not seen any difference in the handling of references. Can you describe exactly what used to happen and what happens for you now? Or include a layout file that won’t update here, perhaps we can find a solution.

Same. References load and update just fine, without intervention except for at drawing open if things have changed.

[Barry]

@JQL @DGSketcher
Can’t you simply do this:

1. Select the label tool.
2. Click on color, and change to 100% opacity.
3. Create the text.

It’s attached, with no visible leader, correct? Or what am I missing?

[trent]

Thanks Anssi for the heads up, I have reached out to Le_Corb.
Trent

[DGSketcher]

@Barry

@izaacpost

I create my own leaderless labels by making the leader line invisible, but it means you have to remember to move both the leader point and the label—and it is difficult to resize the leader’s text box in such a configuration.

Much like Dimension leaders, it would be nice to simplify the process by having the option to hide leaders without messing about with leader placement and making them disappear.

[JQL]

@Barry

Can’t you simply do this:

1. Select the label tool.
2. Click on color, and change to 100% opacity.
3. Create the text.

It’s attached, with no visible leader, correct? Or what am I missing?

2. 0% opacity on the line actually

The line won’t be visible but it will be there so:

1. When Placing the leader you have to draw the line as with other leaders, so it requires more clicks than needed. Repetitive tasks don’t live well with more clicks than needed.
2. Everything that envolves editing the text placement the repositioning of the point of reference attached to the model, will be hindered by a floating line that is invisible and that we shouldn’t need. Selecting the tag will make it visible though we should only need to edit the attached point.
3. The line will be on top of empty spaces so it interferes with the placement of other objects and sometimes gets selected by accident.
4. Exporting to DWG will export the line and it will be visible but unwanted.

[Barry]

0%, Correct.

1. Extra clicks: correct.
2. True.
3. True.
4. True.

I need to get in the habit of prefacing statements like this with “I’ve heard your request and we’ll discuss it, file a ticket, prioritize it and put it on the list for the product. In the mean time, here’s a not-perfect workaround that you probably know but others who read this may not…”

Noted, and thanks for the feedback.

b