The mathematics of finding a problem extension

I guess your unit was 26 light years you would be pretty close :+1:

Combinations vs permutations problem. Uninstalling half at a time is going to be a faster strategy than going through 1,307,674,368,000 permutations or 32,767 combinations.

But… since there’s an unknown time factor involved in the problem, should the OP instead preemptively reinstall half the apps per week with the falsifiable prediction that SU will not crash after some unknown amount of time? If SU does crash, then the hypothesis is falsified. :slight_smile:

You are making this unduly complex - let’s assume 16 plugins, as is easier ti divide…
Step 1
16on >>> 8on + 8off
If you still have the problem it’s in the 8on, so process that list next, otherwise it’s in the 8off set.
Step 2
8 >>>> 4on + 4off
If you still have the problem it’s in the 4on, so process that list next, otherwise it’s in the 4off set.
Step 3
4 >>>> 2on + 2off
If you still have the problem it’s in the 2on, so process that list next, otherwise it’s in the 2off set.
Step 4
2 >>>> 1on + 1off
If you still have the problem it’s the 1on, otherwise it’s the 1off.

It just took 4 steps !

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Classic binary tree method. Log base 2 (n).

I completely agree with you Tig. The calculation I was trying to describe involved 15 plugins that could theoretically become problematic if they were affected not only by other plugins but also by the order in which those other plugins were activated. I have no idea if that is possible but that is where my 15! came from.

Oofda! Correction on the logical gaff I made.

If there are 32,768 combinations but having them all off is excluded, we have 32,767 combinations. But since we also know that having them all on is excluded because that’s the already tested state that fails we have to exclude it too. So, 32,766 combinations to test. On the bright side, we don’t have to check 1,307,674,368,000 ordered permutations but we can exclude a bunch of sets and just do 3,837,047,785 permutation tests. That should come as a relief to you @kevin58 !

I’d say thank you in 100 different languages, but let’s be real, I can barely manage English. So… thanks @3DxJFD ! :+1:

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Wow!
There seems to be a second problem in the first ā€œ8 offā€ group that you missed.
Or later in the other ā€œsmaller offā€ groups.

It’s a little more problematic than this.

As I noted elsewhere in this thread, the hang or crash is not immediate. For instance, I’ve got all of my plugins installed and running right now and everything seems to be fine. SU may work fine like this few weeks or a month or two, then, oops, crash. In the meantime I’m supposed to work without the plugins I use practically daily to augment my work flow?

Generally, the crashes I encounter are not reproducible in the sense where I know what caused it. As often as not it happens using standard SU tools, not just plugins.

If memory serves, I’ve had SU hang on opening a file, closing a file, using paste in place… and these are all just random occurrences, or at least they seem random to me.

The most recent culprit I was actually able to trace to your SectionCutFace, TIG, a plug in I’ve used for years through any number of SU versions without any incident whatsoever. It kinda shocked me when I determined it was actually causing the hang. I deleted it and installed a fresh version (same version #) from Sketchucation and all is right once again.

Until it’s not.

I’m just a knuckle headed builder that happened to pick up CAD and modeling skills along the way. What do I know?

I wish I could use just native tools like Nick does, but I am dependent on the plugins I use to most easily get me through my modeling day. And as I stated earlier, the plugins I use are from well known developers. Hell, I think Christina Eneroth and ThomThom work for Trimble.

It seems that a lot of people on this thread, and I certainly could be wrong, understand far better than I the inner workings of SU. TIG, you obviously understand Rubyscript. I don’t. I know how draw shapes and use push pull. And analyze plans. That’s about the extent of it. It’s really all I want to know. I’m a builder by trade and I’m not really interested in picking up new avocations.

Anyway, I really appreciate all of the ideas and input here from everyone. It is a great community of people no doubt. But I am out of time here and I have to get back to work. I’m gonna want to eat next month.

All the best to everyone.

Bob

I almost replied to the other thread… and then couldn’t help myself here.

I was only half joking about preemptively reinstalling extensions. Since we don’t know what the problems is, and reinstalling seems to help (but not SU, that takes too long), why not just reinstall half (or a few, or a couple) every week? That might ā€˜refresh’ them and fix whatever the problem is? Or disable a few that you know you aren’t going to use for your next series of tasks? That might ā€˜refresh’ them. Can’t say it will work… but if it does it would be better to do a little maintenance than have a crash right when you did a bunch of work (and forgot to save).

As I said, I went through the experience of methodically testing plugins, and ended up never actually solving it. I don’t recall the details now, but something wasn’t consistent or logical or reproducible. I should think a crash report in the right hands would provide possibly some insight better than just blind guessing.

I meant you could just pick an extension (or two, etc.) in the Extension Manager and reinstall it (them). Preemptively reinstall them. If there’s some ā€˜cumulative problem’, a reinstall might reset the timer so to speak. It only takes a few seconds to do and you’d always have them installed. Disabling/enabling extensions is even quicker. Another might do the trick idea. Anyway, crossed fingers that the crashing is less frequent.

ffs, we split this thread from your thread complaining about your crashes, so we could speak maths.

and now you come back and off-topic this one to speak about your crashes ?

come on, let us nerd in peace :upside_down_face:

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If you install a bunch of windows and you put the flashing on so that water flowed into the house - would you uninstall all the windows and siding, and then reinstall them all the exact same way and hope that you don’t have an issue? Maybe in a drought they work fine. Maybe with nice drizzle and afternoon showers it’s ok. Maybe during a thunderstorm with high winds you will have water in the living space.

Will you take the time to figure out what went wrong? Or just take the windows out again and reinstall them same as before? Or maybe you will install them properly and you still get water inside, so you have to figure out if there is an incompatibility with some of the materials you used - maybe there is capillary action causing the water to be drawn into the wall, maybe a tape or membrane is failing, maybe the window is failing.

But if you keep doing the same thing over and over again and refuse to listen to people who make suggestions you are doomed to ā€˜I don’t have time to diagnose this issue…’ but somehow you clearly have time to deal with reinstalling those windows every couple of weeks.

It could be hardware related. It could be software related. It could be something you are doing with a particular model while a particular extension is running on particular hardware… but if you don’t do even the most basic things to test you will never know.

I fully model 2-3 custom homes year. Every piece of Simpson hardware, every timber frame joint, sometimes I rough in the mechanicals and HVAC if we think things are tight and need extremely detailed drawings… I use a handful of extensions, but none that fundamentally alter the basic workflow of using SketchUp. I’m also on a Mac. I skipped 23 because it seemed there were compatibility issues and continued using 22 until I jumped to 24. Understanding your tools is important to a craftsman, regardless if you use a hand plane, swing a hammer, or push a mouse around.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope you find your way…

In Navy Aviation Electronics we called that the ā€œdivide in half methodā€. Over course that was before digital/binary stuff.