Thanks for your comments.
@ Dave R, I’ve just tested and I’m afraid what I see is different from what you see! Are you testing on 2017 or 2016?
I’ve just run your test of my test in SU and LO 2016 and all my scenes update without the view switching to 000 in perspective. When working in 2016 all my views are maintained and my render settings are as per my modifications in the LO overrides. The issue I’m referring to is predominantly that in 2017 the views now switch to be looking at the origin.
Please try this sequence in 2016 and see if you get an error - (if you don’t have time I’ve saved a 2016 file and uploaded it here too…
Open SU file
Create an object
Save a scene with hidden line render style and turn off camera in scene pallet
Insert SU file
Create views (front, plan, side, ortho) by using LO standard view overrides (just like in Vectorworks, Solidworks, Inventor etc - the page space settings can determine the attributes of the view)
Change ortho’s style to architectural design style in LO override
In SU change on of the face colours of your object and resave
In LO (if your scenes dont auto update) right click on one of the modified ortho views and context menu update model ref
You will see that the materials update but the views are maintainted
Now open and save the same LO file in 2017
From there open the SU file in SU 2017, resave it as a 2017 file and relink it to the new LO file
All the views switch to 000 in super zoom with extreme perspective. This never used to happen
I’ve attached a file here that you could simply open in 2016. You will notice that when you open the file that all the scenes are (modified). If you update them from modified to Scene 1 in the scene pallet drop down they all retain their view but the perspective views switch back to hidden line because that’s whats set to that scene. You can’t do this in 2017 because the scene now seems to have to have a camera view which it never did before. Just try re-saving the files as 2017 and re-linking and you will see that, because all of the views use scenes without a camera, that they will switch to 000 in perspective with extreme zoom.
TEST 2016 - No Cam LO.layout (902.5 KB)
In a nut shell the issue is that you used to be able to use SU scenes without a camera associated and select the view in LO and now you can’t because the modification of the view (made in LO) is lost if you update the scene in the scene drop down in LO - this is different from 2016. It may seem like a minor change if you don’t work in this way but up until now it hasn’t been a problem to do this.
Something has changed about the way that scenes (without camera views in SU) are handled when they are modified and then updated in LO in the latest version. This to me is a fundamental change in the way that SU and LO work together and is a big back step. In the other packages I listed above and in my earlier post, you are able to control the view of the model in BOTH the model space and the paper space. In fact SU used to do this better than the other packages. Now you effectively can’t work on a LO file unless you have the SU file open to check your scene settings, OR you have named every combination that makes up a scene.
Eg Below is a typical scene list in 2016 with all the view settings being carried out in LO. LO is where I’m thinking about the paper space, not the model space and this SU scene setup would enable me to produce a multi page presentation, multi page draft working drawings and full blown multi page production details all from one model with minimum fuss and no issues with updating files or views.
The scene list would be as follows.
Scene 1 - Complete Unit Hidden line
Scene 2 - Complete Unit Shaded with Tex
Scene 3 - Complete Unit Shaded with tex and shadows
Scene 4 - Complete Unit Section Left
Scene 5 - Complete Unit Section Plan
Scene 6 - Exploded Unit Shaded with Tex
With the way that 2017 works this setup now needs to become
Scene 1 - Complete Unit Hidden line - top
Scene 1 - Complete Unit Hidden line - front
Scene 1 - Complete Unit Hidden line - right
Scene 1 - Complete Unit Hidden line - left
Scene 1 - Complete Unit Hidden line - ortho view 01
Scene 1 - Complete Unit Hidden line - ortho view 02
Scene 2 - Complete Unit Shaded with Tex - top
Scene 2 - Complete Unit Shaded with Tex - front
Scene 2 - Complete Unit Shaded with Tex - right
Scene 2 - Complete Unit Shaded with Tex - left
Scene 2 - Complete Unit Shaded with Tex - ortho view 01
Scene 2 - Complete Unit Shaded with Tex - ortho view 02
Scene 2 - Complete Unit Shaded with Tex - perspective view 01
Scene 2 - Complete Unit Shaded with Tex - perspective view 02
Scene 2 - Complete Unit Shaded with Tex - perspective view 03
Scene 2 - Complete Unit Shaded with Tex - perspective view 04
Scene 3 - Complete Unit Shaded with tex and shadows - perspective view 01
Scene 3 - Complete Unit Shaded with tex and shadows - perspective view 02
Scene 3 - Complete Unit Shaded with tex and shadows - perspective view 03
Scene 3 - Complete Unit Shaded with tex and shadows - perspective view 04
Scene 4 - Complete Unit Section Left - facing section
Scene 4 - Complete Unit Section Left - ortho of section hidden line
Scene 4 - Complete Unit Section Left - ortho of section shaded with tex
Scene 4 - Complete Unit Section Left - ortho of section shaded with tex and back edges
etc etc etc
As I said this is a LOT more scene management that, up to now has been possible to avoid by using overrides in LO. I have never experienced problems with the overrides in LO - in fact I’ve always found them a very handy feature because you can think about the view on the page while you are looking at the page and not while you are in the model…
@ Nick, I have learnt a lot from looking at your tutorials and workflow (thank you) but with regard to scenes my preferred method has been to control scenes in LO because it has until now been possible to do it and its whats worked for me for all the reasons listed above. Personally I have found it a nightmare having to remember or record what scene had what view, what shadows, what settings; and then when the client changed their mind and the model changed having to rework all the scenes and their respective settings and names. Its especially problematic if you update a scene view by mistake (there is no undo view or reset view) or if someone updates a view on a different workspace to you.
I guess its a case of different workflows in the same application (many ways to skin a cat and all that) - I’m just confused and frustrated that its not possible to work in this way any more.
My issue is that something HAS changed fundamentally with how scenes with NO camera association are handled by LO. Now that this change has taken place the scene modification panel in LO is almost pointless because the overrides stop the view of the model from updating properly. If the modification panel in LO shouldn’t be used then why on earth is it there (I think its there because it used to be very useful).
In my opinion giving uses the ability control scenes in both SU and LO is better than having to drive everything from SU. Can’t it just stay so that the views setup in LO are retained if there is no camera associated in SU and, if not, then why not just ditch the LO overrides all together - just dont give the option to alter in LO (although this would be a real shame)