Layout is forever terrible

LayOut
1

Since I have so much time to spare while Layout continues to think about changing pages, or doing much of any task ever, I figured I’d hop on here to just vent to the SketchUp Community about something that is well understood:

Layout is terrible. I use this software regularly for my profession and I am consistently blow away at how slow, clunky, and buggy it is. I’m a fast and efficient worker, but I spend a tremendous amount of time every day just waiting for Layout to do menial tasks. AutoCAD, or even Revit are immensely faster and smoother to use.

Layout is a joke. SketchUp is great, but Layout is a joke.

I wish the developers would actually do something about this. I can’t believe it’s still this bad. I’m sure some loyalist will respond mentioning that maybe it’s time I upgrade my computer / graphics card, or to follow some suggestions to optimize the operating speed; but let me tell you: this is nothing new, my computer and graphics card are plenty capable by 3D drafting software standards, and I know all the tricks.

That’s all. Just a lovely vent. Layout is forever terrible.

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Interesting. I don’t seem to have the sort of problems you are describing. LayOut is actually quite fast and dependable for me. Maybe I’m doing something wrong. Perhaps you could share a sample LayOut file that proves your points so we can see what’s going on.

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Give us some info…What specific features do you find make it slow?

For me it’s text. Adding and amending text takes me forever, and the formatting options are limited. If I could speed up one thing, it would be that.

I’d also like a “cancel” button for rendering because sometimes you accidentally render using Hybrid and…there goes 20 mins of your life.

Otherwise, Im doing some pretty massive documents and the 2022 version seems pretty stable and fairly smooth if I am careful what i am doing.
It’s taken me ages to figure ut all the little “tricks” in layout - the tools and shortcuts and other settings to get a good workflow…
(here’s a good one - put “Object Snap” on a hotkey so you can toggle it on and off easily)

Anither one: use two tool menu trays - one of the left and one on the right of your screen, then you dont have to scroll up and down one long tray. I put all my “styles” stuff (color, text, stroke) on the left hand side, and Model, Pages, Tags and Layers on the other.

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I work with fairly loaded Sketchup files, and large plan sets in Layout. The list is pretty endless for what is slow or buggy, but here’s just a few off the top of my head:

  • Agonizingly slow when using any text boxes that are more than just a few lines.
  • Very slow when updating model references. FWIW my viewports are all set to Hybrid. I know this is slower, but Raster is too low-quality for the sort of work that I do. Similar to your request, I wish there was a button that I could press that would toggle on or off all viewports at once in the file, or only when printing. This way I could work in Raster, and then update to Hybrid just before printing.
  • Slow when simply going from one sheet to the next - sometimes as long as 5 minutes for a relatively small and simple model.
  • Buggy when trying to edit text. The software off-centers the text from the box and cursers won’t go to obvious lines of text unless you zoom in our out to find the sweet spots. Also, there’s a long delay in typing and the software will catch my characters out of order (e.g. I’ll type ‘He’ quickly and 2 seconds later it will stutter-display ‘eH’).
  • Buggy when using 2-point curves with dashed lines (reflected ceiling plans). The software bug splats without any thought or delay.
  • Slow when copying and pasting viewports - sometimes very slow.
  • Very slow when editing viewport sizes, scaling, or render quality.
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I think someone did mention there was hope of an upcoming change from raster to hybrid (and other modes) being done at the output stage, across all pages…can’t remember if it was official.

@kengey maybe worked on that, but it might require a second process… we need it to be native.

Great suggestion, though.

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This is pretty much exactly how I work too and have similar perspectives regards layout.
Text entry and editing is awful (in many conditions). On-drawing UI response and zoom/scrolling can be molasses slow and laggy. Item selection can be like picking up cocktail sticks whilst wearing oven mitts.
I have always found Layout rock-stable though and could count app crashes on one hand in over eight years of use. (SketchUp is a different matter, unreliability seems to be part of the feature set).
The object Snap tip from @AK_SAM can be a sanity saver. As well as turning off Auto render and manually managing viewport updates. Whilst working at detail, Raster is just not an option as its mostly a pixel mess and trying to pull dimensions out etc its not practical as layout is just searching around within that mess for inference points.
I use hybrid as output, and, whilst it is grindingly slow, regardless of machine specification it gives beautiful output, at least multiple viewport renders get split across available cores and is much faster than it used to be.
For me, general UI / scroll / response is the biggest issue.

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LayOut has improved under the years but it is still no speed demon.
I use vector rendering only for vector exports to DWG and the like. To get the best quality from raster rendering, switch the Output quality to High and turn off JPEG compression from PDF output.

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Layout is more or less perfect for what I do - private residential.

Exclusively use Hybrid - my models are not complex and where needed I do the detail work in Layout.

My construction documents are detailed and to use a phrase from a regular contractor - information dense.

No lag, bugginess, snap or text issues.

That’s my experience - others have a similar experience and others don’t.

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What would be very telling is for people from each camp (clunky or fast) to post screen recordings of them using Layout, otherwise, this is like blindfolded people describing an elephant…

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I don’t think screen recordings will necessarily tell us much – just that one user is having a smooth and fast time and another is having a clunky and laggy time and others, varying degrees in between.

What is needed is for people to share their files so that others can experience problem files on their system.

I create Layout object heavy and text heavy documents with lightweight SketchUp models.

I did share one of my files recently and one user reported that it was slow on their system and I think another said it was ok.

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It all depends on every person’s workflow, I’m not gonna defend Layout or Trimble, I agree that there are performance issues that could be fixed, but most of the files I’ve seen that are hard to work with are very messy files, starting by the sketchup model, there are tons of objects downloaded from the 3D warehouse with a level of detail that doesn’t make sense, most of the times a viewport isn’t copied to show a different scene but there are a lot of viewports linked to the same file, scenes are something that very few people use and I’ve seen personally a passant with a low-mid end laptop having all the viewports set to vectorial or hybrid, it was a 10 pages document and even though the viewports from the first pages were already been worked with he kept them at full resolution, he was complaining of the performance, I spent like 10 minutes explaining him how he should use and set a document up. After optimizing the file it wasn’t laggy at all and he could finish his task very quickly. It’s not hard to learn how to use and optimize a file, but some people just want to get everything to full resolution and the highest quality even if they have a machine with integrated graphics.

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I agree with the OP’s post (never too late to jump into the convo is it? :D)
Layout can be horrendous performance wise, even with raster viewports. I have templates that have 10+ pages with 4 viewports a page (I actually do use them all) which takes a while to load. Thats with raster viewports, if they were vector then i’d be waiting at least a week.

On the other hand it is one of the easiest, most intuitive 2D software i have use (although I don’t have much experience with anything else). Quick and easy. I’d prefer that most days over Autocad.
I often use it to design logos or vector textures to import into Lumion to create renders, which it is surprisingly good at. Also creating scalable png’s too.

Found out this trick a while back and never looked back. despite having 1/3rd the space to work with, its a lot faster

Anyway small rant over, all we really need is AI to get advanced enough to draw everything for us.

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Computer settings that affect speed. Try at your own risk, YMMV. I have used many of these settings for years.

I recently received this from Acronis ( backup software Windows only ):

1. Disable Special Effects. Windows has numerous visual effects that can slow down your system. Disabling these effects can improve performance. Go to System > Advanced System Settings > Settings (under Performance) and select “Adjust for best performance”.

2. Manage Power Settings. High-performance power plans can offer increased speed. Go to Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Power Options and select “High performance”.

3. Disable Search Indexing: Search indexing improves search speed but can slow down your system. Services (services.msc in Run command), locate Windows Search, right-click and select “Properties,” then disable it and stop the service.

4. Limit Background Processes: Background applications can consume considerable resources. In “Settings” > “Privacy” > “Background apps”, turn off the apps you don’t need running in the background.

5. Disable Transparency Effects: Transparency effects are visually appealing but can slow down some systems. Go to “Settings” > “Personalization” > “Colors” and turn off “Transparency effects.”

6. Uninstall Unnecessary Applications: Applications you don’t use can take up space and slow down your system. Go to “Settings” > “Apps” > “Apps & features.” Select the app you want to uninstall and click “Uninstall.”

7. Use Performance Monitor: This tool provides detailed real-time analysis of your system and can help identify performance issues. Type “Performance Monitor” into the start menu and explore the available reports and tools.

8. Enable Fast Startup: This feature can decrease the time it takes for your system to boot up.
Go to “Control Panel” > “Hardware and Sound” > “Power Options” > “Choose what the power buttons do” and check the “Turn on fast startup” option.

9. Use ReadyBoost: This tool allows you to use a removable drive to improve system speed. Plug in a USB drive, right-click on it in “File Explorer,” select “Properties,” go to the “ReadyBoost” tab, and follow the instructions. Make sure you use a high-performance external drive.

10. Adjust Virtual Memory: Virtual memory can be increased to improve system performance, especially if you’re running low on physical RAM. Go to “System” > “Advanced System Settings” > “Settings” (under Performance) > “Advanced” > “Change.” Uncheck “Automatically manage paging file size for all drives,” select “Custom size,” and set the initial and maximum size based on your system’s resources (generally, this can be up to 1.5 times your actual RAM).

Enjoy the speed, stay cyber-protected and don’t forget to share with your friends!

Your friends at Acronis

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Like everyone, I’ve had a few issues here and there, but following most people’s recommendations of breaking down work into separate files by work group has been enormous. This is a screenshot of one of my pages with 24 viewports on it showing footing details (ARCH D paper for the remote hope of being able to be read, of course), and it takes my very sparse machine about 3 seconds to load. I don’t defend Trimble, either, but I think a lot can be done through organization that doesn’t get utilized.

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Those are pretty much superseded these days with Windows 10 and 11 doing a much better job of self-managing things. And modern PCs (since years ago ) having plenty of power (multiple cores and SSDs) to manage performance, windows effects, etc.

Unless your PC is 10 years old and clearly struggling, I wouldn’t mess with Readyboost or adjusting virtual RAM or even power settings…
I’d advise people to leave Windows alone and focus on LayOut workflow improvements.

Changing GPU from Quality to Performance is maybe the exception…but remember that LayOut doesnt actually use the GPU for processing.

Hardware wise, LayOut is ALL about:

  • CPU performance (single core speed).
  • Solid State Drive performance (increases saving, speed which is a big factor in SketchUp > LayOut syncing).
  • RAM capacity can be a factor on really large files.
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100% agree - Sketchup is good, Layout is awful - even by freeware standards. You can get reasonable DXF files straight from Sketchup via the DXF exporter, but if you need to add 2D dimensioning before going to DXF, you need to go via Layout - but I am yet to get a proper 2D drawing into DXF using this method. Unfortunately, many manufacturing companies want files, not drawings… so if you can’t send a machine friendly file, they can’t make it…

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At least once a month I google ‘sketchup layout sucks’ as I wait for a view to render in hybrid… Misery loves company and all that…

Please please please focus on Layout at some point to fix the myriad of discussed issues in all the threads around the internet… :weary: :sob:

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I guess in the meantime you could change your workflow so you don’t have these issues.

There are quite a few of us that have very fast results with Layout.

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What version are you on?