Layers and Copy Paste Operations


#1

2015_0908_IHS.skp (462.0 KB)

I need to verify if I’m experience a bug with the application: I’m experiencing a failure of the copy paste command of objects in attempting to create duplicate geometry on a different layer. Objects on layer “Reception_01” are not able to be copied to layer, “Reception_02.” Either the faces or the lines, but never both are able to copied. This exploded geometry with not item belonging to a component as far as I can tell. Before I go to the trouble of reinstalling I’m hoping that I’ve missed something simple instead of discovering a bug. Thanks.


#2

When an entity is copied and pasted into a model, it retains the properties with which it was created, (meaning that the layer the entity exists on when copied will be the same once it’s pasted) so after the paste operation is performed, change the layer through the Entity Info Dialog box.


#3

I think I may have confused you. The issue is that the paste operation is incomplete for some unknown reason aside from the layers. Items are being omitted and therefore the whole object is unable to be changed to the new layer thus making it impossible to “copy” to layer (I misspoke here I think).


#4

I’m not certain what you are trying to do, but your model show what happens when you use Layers incorrectly.

All raw geometry should remain on Layer0 and only Groups and Components should be assigned other layers.
Layer0 should remain as the active layer 97% of the time.

As you can see in this .gif you have edges and faces on different layers. A sure road to madness.


#5

[quote=“Box, post:4, topic:15065”]…
Layer0 should remain as the active layer 97% of the time.
… you have edges and faces on different layers. A sure road to madness.
[/quote]
I disagree with Box in that the active layer should be Layer0 99% of the time.
And if you don’t know how layers should be applied, make it 100% of the time.
But then again he’s 200% right about the layer madness that you are introducing this way.

One important thing that you might have overseen with layers and exploding is following:
-when you explode a group or a component, all entities inside that context will inherit the group’s (or component’s) layer if these entities were still on Layer0 before exploding.
This may have happened in your case, for you say:

Always be sure that basic geometry remains on Layer0.


#6

The way that contents are moved to the container’s layer when you explode the container has tripped up many people. TIG has written a layer monitor plugin that alters this explode behavior and also monitors when you are putting edges or faces onto other layers.


#7

Improper use of SketchUp’s layer system is indeed the root of the problem.
Here’s the Layer Manger upon opening the file:


The issue will persist and eventually other odd things will occur unless you set things in order.
Soon you’ll see this message:


Open the Layers Manager and delete all the extra layers, thereby assigning all entities back to Layer0
As you delete each layer, you’ll see a pop up window.
Select: Move contents to Default layer

Required reading:
Does SketchUp Support Layers? — SketchUp Help


#8

Here’s a link: http://sketchucation.com/pluginstore?pln=TIG_LayerWatcher


#9

I’m confused. Are you saying there is only one layer that can be used to be the go-between new layers? That doesn’t make sense. The operation I was performing was simple: Input = All Selected Objects (Lines and Faces). All Objects = Layer “x” ( Are you saying here it needs to be Layer 0?). All objects on Layer “x”.Copied. Paste in Place, Pasted elements set to layer “y.” = Fail. This is where I’m having trouble and wondering if there is an error. These objects must be corrupted somehow on my end because there’s no logical reason this should fail. This is a standard operation across multiple 3D programs and there is some error occurring outside of this from how I’m working. Please let me know if there is a coded requirement for the use of layer 0 because otherwise there is something amiss from where I’m working because suggested solutions appear irrelevant to operation being performed. Thanks again.


#10

More errors occurring in basic drawing and navigation. Mac version has serious issues. I think this has to be reinstalled before I can report on common ground. I suggest avoiding the mac version of “Make.”


#11

There are 3 detailed and competent answers above and you don’t believe them and suggest to avoid the software?


#12

No bug. Read about how layers work in SketchUp: http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/38572
(as Geo suggested above). If you persist in suspecting there is a bug here, you’ll not get any further.

With SketchUp you create things in a virtual world. It’s not a drawing program. An edge and a face are nothing by themselfs. Put well together they may represent something. group them and this is the time to (if needed / if desired for controling visibility) assign another layer to it.
Other programs may allow coinciding edges in modeling space. Not in SketchUp, when in the same context. That is when groups come in handy.
One object (bunch of geometry grouped) may touch another object (also grouped geometry) at one side. They sit side by side. Controle their vissibility by using different layers. Ungrouped edges and faces don’t need other layers.
Don’t assign other layers (visibility switches) to basic geometry, only to groups and components.


#13

The problem is that you are taking the definition of “Layer” from other software and trying to apply it to SU: The term “Layer” in SU refers to a viewing plane.

Each entity - edge, face, group or component - can be assigned to a different layer. HOWEVER the visibility status is not determined by the wrapper object’s visibility:

Example: model of a car…

  • Bodywork, Windsheild & Lights are elements inside Exterior Group
  • Axle, Engine & Wheels are inside Interior Group
  • Interior and Exterior are part of Car Model
  • Everything starts on Layer0
  • If I assign Car Model to LayerA and turn it’s visibility off, everything vanishes.
  • If I turn it back on and set Interior onto LayerB, then turn off it’s visibility, then the Axle, Engine and Wheels vanish.
  • If I leave this off and turn LaterA off, everything vanishes again. If I turn back on LayerA, you have a floating car; you only see the Bodywork, Windsheild & Lights. This is the key to it all: The LayerA controls the visibility of the Car Model, but when you toggle it, you can’t see all of the car because parts of it are on a hidden layer.
  • One entity can have it’s visibility turned off by many different layers; for example the hub-cap of the wheel can be on it’s own layer, as can the wheel, as can the interior, as can the main model - all 4 layers must be visible before you can see/edit the hubcap entity. If one of them is turned off, it’s gone.

Now you add complications like another layer and mix up which nested level of groups and objects are assigned to it… Unless you are very organised and understand how the layering works, it is really easy to get confused. If you add in the ability that each of these can also be hidden rather than completely turned off, it adds another layer of complexity (pun intended).

Oh, and all of these options only hide the geometry from view - it’s still there and if you try and delete a line or move an edge or draw a surface that would alter the hidden geometry, it still will change it.


#14

You needn’t be.
Let go of your errant preconceptions and learn.

Again, @codywin … required reading:
Does SketchUp Support Layers? — SketchUp Help


#15

Those answers were not addressing the issue, so I was trying to explain it. I understood what has been said but it was not what was happening on my end or necessarily practical for what I have already done (defaulting all the layers for example). Additionally, I’m not understanding why active layer would need to be Default Layer 0. Not common for other modeling applications and not a practical workflow. So, in my case all objects, lines and faces were all indicated to be on a specific layer via the entity info. The glitch occurred when they were copied and pasted to the same layer - not all of the copied geometry complied. That’s the problem. If these always have to be layer0 for this to work, then, I’m sorry, that kind of is limiting. These entities were also not components, so what was said was true just not what I was asking. I’m sorry if I’m creating confusion. I’m just trying to get to the bottom of some problems with basic functionality that appears unique to this install. If the file I uploaded appears to be working for others then that is helpful for me to try reinstalling and resolving whatever is causing the issue. Thanks.


#16

This is good. I understand how this is working in sketchup. Like I say below though, the operation is simplified greatly - no groups, or components. Just lines and the faces they generate all on the same layer. Having this required to begin on layer 0 though? Not sure why that should matter. Unless that’s an inherent limitation in the app? Thanks for your detailed reply!


#17

It appears that you expect this software to behave in similar fashion to commonly used CAD applications. This is definitely not what occurs in this circumstance. It should be considered a functional imperative that all raw geometry is to reside on Layer 0. To place ungrouped (or non component) edges and faces on any other layer is asking for trouble. This is largely due to SU’s characteristic layer functionality. LAYERS DO NOT ISOLATE GEOMETRY in this software, unlike, say, AutoCad, Vectorworks, Archicad, Revit or many CAD programs. LAYERS ARE USED TO CONTROL VISIBILITY through on/off toggles.

You should avoid trying to will the software to work the way you think it should and embrace the way it is designed to work. I hope I am making a valid assertion when I mention that it would be prudent to become (more) familiar with the rudimentary operating instructions to more effectively use the program. Although some effort is required on your part, there is a plethora of tutorial materials available that can enable you to become adept in using SU in a reasonably short time. To that end, I suggest reviewing the information provided under the following urls (which is NOT all inclusive):

http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/116174





https://www.youtube.com/results?q=SKETCHUP+TOOLBAR+SERIES

#18

The only impractical facet of this discussion is a steadfast refusal to accept correct information from seven experienced users about software you know little about.

• Geometry is created in SU on the Default Layer 0
• Geometry remains on the Default Layer 0 … forever.

• A layer in SU is merely a visibility attribute assigned to Groups and Components.
• The Group or Component bears the layer attribute.
• Geometry within the context of the Group or Component remains on the Default Layer 0 … always.

Example:
2015_0908_IHS_Fixed.skp (455.7 KB)


#19

Just to muddy the waters a little bit; when everyone is talking about primitive geometry being kept to layer 0, there are a few exceptions to this; generally to do with annotation and things that have no relevance to the actual model. (eg notes and dimensions)


#20

I think those are not ment by primitive geometry anyway?