Importing 3D components into Hitfilm !?

One thing I’ve learned about 3D land is that SOME users (not all) are only capable of engaging when they can play the teacher/expert role. They find any other configuration of the conversation to be unacceptable. That’s their right. Nobody is obligated to engage.

If you’re not stomping off and would like to enhance your case to make it more persuasive, could you please show us where in the SketchUp manual any of your points are made? If you can do so I’d be happy to review and revise my perspective on these matters. Really, I would.

I think DaveR nailed it. He was intellectually honest enough to admit that his definition of a “good model” was only his definition, and not a universally accepted standard. Some of you good fellows seem to be expecting novices to learn and comply with a standard that appears not to exist. Again, if you can show us where in the SketchUp manual that claim is shown to be wrong, I’m willing to be corrected by that method. Otherwise, you are of course entitled to your opinion.

I have enough curiosity about this that I bought one of their ‘free’ versions. The one I bought costs about $190, but they show it as being a special price of $39.

Can you give at least one example of a 3D Warehouse model that fails to import, and also what format file did you try?

I read your conversion process. It’s a shame they only support .lwo, .3ds, .abc, .fbx and .obj. It’s not unusual for software to support exporting Collada, but not supporting import of Collada, but it would have been nice.

Still, tell me a model to try from the 3D Warehouse, that always fails for you.

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Good suggestion, and I will shift now to providing such information.

As I currently understand it, the 3D realm is a collection of walled gardens and so long as one stays within a particular garden things typically go pretty well. As example, I’m guessing most or all 3D Warehouse files work in SketchUp. They have in my experience anyway. That’s the point of the 3D Warehouse, so to the degree I’ve referred to these files as failed or broken etc I’m being kind of sloppy and unfair.

The problems typically arise whenever one is trying to move a file from one walled garden to another, as we see happening here as I try to move files from SketchUp to Hitfilm.

While I really do think SketchUp is very cool, and I really admire how accessible it is to novices, honestly I probably wouldn’t use it much unless I could move the files in to Hitfilm so as to process with other features. Thus I’ve been focused on this file transfer issue since arriving on the forum. I do realize that tons of people will be entirely happy staying within SketchUp and thus none of this file transfer business will likely be an issue for them.

Sorry, I didn’t get your point about buying one of their free versions. What are you referring to here? 3D Warehouse? Something else?

PS: It’s possible there are other video editors which will be more receptive to a greater variety of 3D models. Should anyone wish to make such a suggestion please feel free, listening.

Hitfilm. In the product page there is mention of it being free, but it’s pay what you want, with suggested prices of $9, $19, and $39. Each of those shows what the regular prices should be.

Here is a screenshot of the link you click on, and then the prices you are shown. I do know that I could possibly have claimed the software to be worth $0, and not paid anything, but I couldn’t bring myself to do that.

free

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Ah, I see now, thanks. I guess this is a new Hitfilm sales strategy, as they used to just give Express away for free with no such suggestions. The sales strategy I’m aware of is that Hitfilm Express is free, and there are a big collection of add-ons which you can purchase to enhance it to your taste. I bought the Puppet Tool for $25 for example. The suggested prices are entirely reasonable though, imho.

Anyway, here’s a beginning on the data I promised.

http://tanny.com/sketchup/sketchup-files.zip

The zip contains two folders, one of 3D Warehouse files that successfully transferred to Hitfilm, and another of those that didn’t.

For all “failed” files but one, when they didn’t work they just didn’t appear in Hitfilm, but the rest of the model did. One file somehow choked Hitfilm preventing anything from loading. Sorry I discarded that file and so can’t share it.

From here out I’ll provide the URL of “failed” files I find in the 3D Warehouse as perhaps the webpage will provide additional info you would find helpful. If you need more or less info just let me know.

Writing as both a SketchUp user (for ~8 years) and a professional software engineer (who has done a modest amount of 2D and 3D graphics programming during a 39-year career so far), I think it is clear that there is a mismatch between the implementations of SketchUp, the DAE exporter, the FBX converter, and Hitfilm regarding the semantics and on-disk encoding of a 3D model. Surely it is possible to precisely express the aspects of a SketchUp model that ultimately yield failure in Hitfilm.

One might hope that any random collection of model attributes (edges and faces, face orientation, group and/or component structure, images of various kinds, guide points and guide lines, dimensions, layers/tags, scenes, materials, etc.) as created in SketchUp would be exportable, convertible, and importable into Hitfilm and successfully yield a visual result similar to that originally seen in SketchUp. Clearly, it does not always work. Perhaps the failures are due in principle to unknown (to us) semantic incompatibilities in the notion of a 3D model between SketchUp, DAE, FBX, and Hitfilm. Or perhaps the failures are due in practice to bugs or limitations in one or more of these four pieces of software. A detailed study of the specifications of these pieces of software could answer whether semantic incompatibilities exist (but it’s quite possible that no public and detailed specification is available for one or more products). Lacking that, a campaign of experiments would be one way to determine in practice what aspects of SketchUp yield ultimate failure in Hitfilm.

Briefly on the subject of a “good” vs. “bad” model, this is largely subjective. A primary reason it is subject has been stated a few times in this topic already: a model’s quality largely depends on its original purpose. A model of a Tulip plant in bloom consisting of millions of edges and faces, with roots, stamens, pistils, petals, etc. arranged with high fidelity to a particular original live example, might be a fantastic research tool to a botanist but useless trash to a film set designer doing pre-visualization. Or, a model of a railroad boxcar that looks good but does not consist of “solid” objects might be useless to a person wanting to 3D print a scale-model boxcar but would be great to a film set designer for pre-vis.

I doubt that many of the aspects considered when assessing a 3D model’s “quality” are relevant to the SketchUp->Hitfilm process addressed in this topic. Some aspects might be, such whether face orientation is consistently inside/outside, or whether image textures are used in some atypical manner within SketchUp. Others aspects, such as whether the geometry is lightweight (simple) vs. heavyweight (complex) might not a process issue.

Hey, thanks for an excellent post, appreciate it.

All I can add from the perspective of a 3D nube, who is perhaps somewhat representative of 3D nubes in general…

While it’s probably true that a detailed investigation could get to the bottom of what’s causing these issues, and probably also true that if a user were to master a variety of advanced 3D skills they could perhaps fix the problems, that doesn’t really answer the question of whether the 3D experience merits such a time investment.

Is 3D cool technology? Definitely yes. Is it worth all this bother? To each their own, but personally, I wrestle with that question daily.

As the former owner of a Net tech startup, I find myself somewhat obsessed with a vision of many thousands of people trying 3D, hitting the wall of file transfer obstacles, getting discouraged and quitting, and then being lost as customers to the 3D industry. So much lost opportunity being flushed down the drain by a failure to standardize.

Don’t have HitFilm, but one obvious differenced looking the models that don’t work vs. those that do:

  • the ones that DON’T work are all loose geometry
  • the ones that DO work have everything made into one or more components, with NO loose geometry.

The chest of drawers (that doesn’t work) also has a small number of reversed faces in the stems of the drawer knobs.

For the chest of drawers, I’ve made the chest into a solid component, and made the knobs into copies of the same knob component, and cleaned up a stray edge.

Chest+of+Drawers.skp (92.1 KB)

See if it will now export successfully to HitFilm.

If it does, make the rugs into components and try them afterwards.

I did test some of the models, and exporting to FBX from SketchUp works fine in HitFilm. Also, exporting to Collada, then importing back to SketchUp, and exporting to FBX, still works ok.

Taking one of the bad models through the Autodesk FBX converter then causes problems in HitFilm. For the lamp I would see flickering shade faces. The lamp is already grouped, and I ran solid inspector on it too, to make sure the shade is a solid. Still flickers.

So, I’m not sure what there is in the shade that upsets the FBX converter, but as a direct export to FBX works, it does seem more a problem in the converter than the model being bad as such.

Oops, as I think I reported somewhere above (or should have), I’m in SketchUp Make, and the Pro trial version will expire soon, so I’m exporting to DAE so as to see what I’ll have to work with once trial is over. Thus the need for the Autodesk Converter to turn the DAE in to an FBX.

I did test exporting to FBX from SketchUp Make in Pro trial mode, and you’re right, it does work in Hitfilm.

It’s possible I could solve all this by upgrading to Pro, but honestly, software subscription is not really my thing, and paying a year in advance even less so. Don’t blame you a bit for trying, I would too, but at least so far based on a limited experience of SketchUp, not a compelling offer here. I really do like SketchUp, just not that much.

I see you have a pay once price too, but it’s more than I’ve spent on any software in 25 years. Again, not a complaint, just sharing a prospect’s perspective. If you can sell Pro at that price point, go for it, I would.

That said, additional experience with SketchUp might change my mind about your pricing, a possibility I am open to exploring. If SketchUp had the features of a video editor so that I could do everything all in one place that would definitely focus my interest.

Thank you John, this is a promising analysis, and an interesting result…

I added your fixed cabinet to the scene and then re-imported the entire scene to Hitiflm. It works. Thank you. And…

Now all the objects that previously didn’t work also appear in the scene. For instance, the previous “broken” cabinets, and your fixed cabinets BOTH appear in the scene. Hmm…

One thing that’s clear is I need to learn more about components. I tried to make the carpet a component as you suggested, but the “make component” option was grayed out in the context menu. So, something I don’t yet know happening here.

Another theory could be that Hitfilm is not fully reliable in importing 3D models? I have no idea, but will keep an eye out for evidence of this.

Thanks again for your investigation, this does seem like promising information.