IFC & attributes import & export

Perhaps that’s true, but it isn’t hard to imagine an extension to SketchUp where the user will not have to think about classification (I might be working on something for that…).

This is not Trimble’s responsibility.

Do you mean as in it is not Trimble’s responsibility, because it is the Sketchup teams’ responsibility, or neither’s responsibility?

If you mean neither, then I’m astonished by the sentiment. It would be to SketchUp’s benefit if it can be proved that SketchUp can work well with IFC. It means that information/work made in Sketchup can be transferred effectively to other software, and vice-versa. Without effective interoperability, SketchUp simply can’t be a BIM platform.

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Real interoperability between applications doesn’t yet exist, and the IFC format, as it is today, doesn’t provide it. It allows us to view and combine output from different models, but effective editing of a model requires the tools that are available only in the application that created it. In that SketchUp-created files are no different from the others. What the IFC format provides is a geometry model plus a tagging system. This is not likely to change soon, as application developers are not interested in providing cross-application functionality.

Anssi

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Neither.

Don’t be. They are a software company. It’s not their responsibility to teach professionals how to do their jobs.

There are 3rd party teaching people or companies that could do it.

Or someone, you perhaps, could write a “SketchUp IFC for Professionals” book.

I’m glad this topic is attracting debate as it may hasten Trimble’s advancement on adding more in depth tagging possibilities…

Meantime, as I said in my article - Webmail: access your OVH emails on ovhcloud.com | OVHcloud - we are already quite happy to be able to work with our carpenters on our timber frame buildings… doing some quite complex geometry and it works !

Anyway, keep the thoughts coming folks

Best

This is a very interesting thread to me, as I’m trying to figure out how we computer savvy DIY tiny house & cabin builders can use IFC & custom attributes in Sketchup 2016 to aggregate critical component data like material type, density, calculated weight, actual weight, mfr id, mfr product code, supplier id, supplier product code, unit cost, etc for generating some useful construction planning reports from our models. Many of us have found Sketchup ideal for designing & building our first small wooden structures, but tiny house people need to guesstimate the assembled weight of their designs, for example, and our panelized construction process uses a large number of identical structural elements so we’d like to total these up for fabrication planning. I was excited to hear about IFC schema & custom attribute support in Sketchup 2016, but I’m still trying to figure out how to make this work for us. Are there any online postings that go into more detail about how implement these features in support of a data-driven construction planning process?

@amcrae

Firstly, Alan, you need the Pro edition, and should be using it if you’re building homes of any size as a business. (Your profile indicates you have Make.)

With the Pro edition you can create any attributes you need for the dynamic components attribute dictionary, that will then appear on the Pro Report Generator. (IFC does not need to come into your workflow, per se.)

… as well as using extensions like:

http://extensions.sketchup.com/en/search/site/material%20reporter

(Some are commercial requiring a paid license.)

Dan, I am not a professional builder. In fact, I am an IT technician and computer consultant. My wife & I are in the process of starting a non-profit called Green Equity Builders, but it’s purpose is simply to freely advise people on the best ways to build their own sweat equity in their own sustainable homestead and create a greener, more sustainable, and debt-free lifestyle for their family. If you check out our website, www.greenequitybuilders.org, you’ll see that we’re also trying to develop and freely share a system of diy panelized construction that could become the cornerstone of their homesteading independence. I make a living doing computer work, not building houses. Right now I’m trying to apply our evolving panelized construction process to building a small greenhouse from discarded double-pane vinyl windows of various sizes, and, if that goes well, we’ll attempt our first solar cabin design/build. But first we’re active members in The Tiny Life Forum, where 16 different families are all trying to design & build their own tiny homes or cabins on shoestring budgets.Our mission is to help folks like these see a way forward to a better, more sustainable future, and for that they are going to have to shoulder their creative burdens themselves & utilize whatever resources come their way. One of those resources is the free version of Sketchup, which empowers diy’ers all over the world to get busy designing & building their dreams & best ideas. Most of these folks can’t afford to buy a Pro license to Sketchup, so to truly help them I need to improvise a way to use the free version, along with some plug-ins, to support their design/build processes. Since I’ve never built a tiny house or cabin before, but I have designed & built some woodworking project with Sketchup, and I have good information technology skills, I might stand the best chance of anyone in the Tiny Life Forum to actually create a design/build process that is driven by Sketchup. As I have only intermediate skills with Sketchup 8, and I am still learning Sketchup 2016, I am totally open to suggestions on how to coax Sketchup 2016 into becoming a more full-fledged diy design/build platform for homesteaders & tiny living enthusiasts. We all love Sketchup and we all really need all the help & advice we can get. Thanks for any suggestions in advance.

have a look at the Wiki House initiative and how they have developed SketchUp based design elements…

john

Nice and dandy. But this all needs to be in your forum profile, where I would have seen it when I was there and saw that you are running the Make edition.

I saw in your previous post, “tiny house and cabin builders” which I took as a rather broad group, and missed the DIY modifier,… sorry.

Understandable. (FYI, I myself have been advocating for a more affordable sole-proprietor “Craftsman” license for SketchUp. Something in the range of 250US ? Your groups seem like they’d be nice candidates for such a license if it ever does come into existence.)

But,… currently, … the native SketchUp IFC functionality is considered a commercial use, and only the Pro editions can utilize it.
Besides, IFC is a part of BIM, and would be way outside the need of a DIYer building a tiny home or cabin.

SketchUp’s Dynamic Components are driven by an extension themselves, and although using that extension’s build wizards is a Pro edition only feature, any edition can use these components, and change the attribute options (via the Component Options dialog.)

So, SketchUp Make can use dynamic components, that have been created by others with the Pro edition (or perhaps some 3rd party extension.)

Keep in mind that any native report generator is likely a Pro edition only feature.

So, you or someone, would need to write a Ruby report extension for these DIYers.

It is not that hard, and there is already an example that was written by the SketchUp Team. It needs some work, in that it is very old, and needs to be wrapped within a toplevel module namespace, and likely a extension sub-module.

http://www.sketchup.com/intl/en/developer/docs/tutorial_attrreporting

John, Thanks for your feedback. A quick Google search seems to indicate that Wiki House is working towards the same basic idea: a standardized component attribute dictionary for common construction materials. If a few experienced builders combine their in-depth understanding of the design, procure, build, and document process into a well thought out system of deeply descriptive component attributes that can be attached to a library of Sketchup standard building materials then all us newbies would be able to drag, drop, and size from a standard builder’s palette of dynamic components. This would be hugely empowering for many people who are just now embarking on their own diy building projects and need a complete framework within which to create their visions. I’ll do some in-depth searching for WikiHouse’s current model, and if you know of any specific url links that would help me please let me know so I can proceed full speed ahead. Thanks!

Dan, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I had erroneously assumed that the standardized component attributes dictionary that I should be looking at would be the IFC model, especially as it connects to BIM tools used by contractors. Your explanation of creating & sharing dynamic components that have the right custom attributes pre-attached sounds like an ideal solution. Especially if Sketchup Free users could utilize these standardized dynamic components and know that their models would have all the needed attribute data pre-attached to each building component used in their designs. Seems like the reporting & analysis side of actually utilizing the embedded standardized attributes will require a customized Ruby reporting extension, but I’m sure that is a problem that can be overcome after the standardized dynamic components have been published to the Sketchup user community. This feels like the right way to go, and I really appreciate your insightful response to my original inquiry. Now I just need to connect with WikiHouse and other Sketchup power users & experienced builders to gather their recommendations for a standardized dictionary of building components attributes. Looks like I’ll need to find the budget for buying a Sketchup Pro license so that I can create a collection of building materials dynamic components that incorporate this proposed standardized attribute dictionary and then upload the models into the Sketchup online components library. Sounds like a plan! Now I need to see what others have proposed for standardized attribute dictionaries. Thanks for your help with this.

I’m interested to working on it, I’ve already done une little plugin to affect IFC component a Layer:

And I’ll try to do the layer to IFC so every thing in the layer “C-Wall” for exemple 'll go to the IFC label “IFCwall”

But I’ve still big problems with the lost of component definition and axes between export and import…

Hi folks, is there any update on improved ifc attribution and so on from Trimble ??

Okay you’ve had enough time to digest the improvements released in SketchUp 2018.

from the SketchUp 2018 Release Notes:

IFC Export Improvements
BIM doesn’t really work if information can’t move freely between applications. We’ve dialed in our IFC exporter to ensure that the attributes you bring in from other applications or manipulate in SketchUp stay with your work when it leaves SketchUp.

Where does SketchUp stand now in your IFC needs ?

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Yes, I’ve not had much time to play with this specific thing, but I guess that means if somebody writes a plugin to add extra attributes above and beyond the “advanced” that now come with 2018…
Bravo though for getting this far…
However, when trying to set up a logical hierarchy of objects ifcSite, ifcBuilding, ifcBuildingStorey as nested objects (groups) etc… when opened in tekla bimsight (which belongs to Trimble n’est ce pas ?) you can’t actually isolate these elements seperately… worse, if they are components they dont export per se
How does one force it to work ?

testIFC-all components-attributes2.skp (234,8 Ko)

It is unclear whether they need to be components or groups. The user guide says both.

In a SketchUp 3D model, this idea isn’t some wishy-washy concept. When you use the Classifier to embed data into groups or or components, those groups or components become objects.

“or or” ?

… and then further down the article emboldened …

Before you start classifying objects, make sure your model is ready:

So this appears to need clarification.

The first test I’d think is to export to IFC, and then import back into SketchUp and see if all the data is still there.

Do you have the latest version. (I just downloaded v 1.9.9.32052)

Can you post a SU2018 IFC file export, so I can see what you see inside BIMsight ?