Has Layout improved since 2021?

I have seen marketing material saying that Layout has been updated significantly, with a new drawing engine or similar.

Can any regular users tell me: is it a lot better? I am a long time user, and I am considering upgrading to a mac M4 with SU 24, but I am hesitating because SU 2021 is fine for my purposes, but I could really use a better performing version of Layout. For example, the viewports can change scale regardless of whether that is fixed or not, weird edges can float around a viewport etcā€¦ itā€™s a bit buggy. In addition, the basic drawing function is painfully slow and clunky compared to VWorks, ACAD etc. Yes, I know it is not one a full-blown CAD programme, and I donā€™t have unrealistic expectations, my question is simply: is it a lot better than it was three years ago?

If the answer is no, thatā€™s fine. Any experience appreciated.

On a 2021 M1 Mac running Sonoma 14.5. Upgraded to SKU 2024 from 2022 in August.

ā€œA lot betterā€. Not sure I would say that. There would have to be some significant changes for me to say ā€œa lot betterā€. New graphics engine is good until it isnā€™t. I had to turn it off because there were some ā€œa lot worseā€ graphics issues that appeared. Couldnā€™t use ambient occlusion because its integration with Layout was not great in my opinion and caused issues with my overall workflow that werenā€™t worth changing to keep it.

I have noticed an increase in crashes of Layout. Having multiple open files and closing one will crash the app 1 out of 4 times. Not sure why as I donā€™t bother chasing down bugsplats.

Having said all that, I no longer have the Mac Layout page scroll-in issues that used to plague me. That is a big upgrade as it used to just turn me eyes red in frustration. Layout is still my daily driver. I donā€™t use AutoDesk anymore and hopefully that wont change. The issues that I might have are long term issues that have been with the software since I started using it 10 years ago (Mac non-anchored tool trays; Mac tool icons limited to one row; No workspace customization or memory that makes any sense at all; Mac Layout can not see Sketchup Styles saved in a custom location; and the big one, no access to Outliner in the Layout Sketchup Panel).

Hasnā€™t discouraged me from finding new pastures. Even with all its sub-par stuff, itā€™s still the only platform for me. Which is really me saying, you probably wont be sorry about upgrading. If you are good on 21, you will most likely be good on 24, especially with the M4.

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Hi Keith

Thanks that is very useful. I wonder if SU are inadequately resourcing Layout development, if it has the potential to be a really good modelling CAD lite package and that is not being fulfilled, or if there is something structural that makes it not worth the investment.

It is frustrating how close Layout and SU are to a great package. I think Iā€™ll hang around a bit more before taking the plungeā€¦ just another year or twoā€¦ maybe??

cheers

Ivan

yes it is.

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I also believe it to be improved. Output Override is a welcomed feature and the SketchUp Model style controls are working well for me. I do have some unpredictable hangs when outputting vector to PDF but in general I find it reasonably stable.

I donā€™t ā€œdrawā€ anything in Layout, so its improvement as a CAD replacement is irrelevant. I donā€™t believe it has changed much in that respect and donā€™t expect it to.

Layout 24 is a LOT better. Navigating the page is much improved, and speed in general. This thing about Layout not intended to be CAD: Layout is for presenting and annotating oneĀ“s SU viewports, and is pretty good at that. But itā€™s also for 2D drawing, CAD or not, it could be much better at that.

I didnā€™t read any in your response Dave. Weā€™re all grateful for the efforts you make responding to people here.

To the OP: Iā€™m with the others. LayOut 2024 is a big upgrade. The new graphics engine yesā€¦but more specifically the addition of the ā€˜Draft Modeā€™ function - being able to shortcut toggle on/off whether LO displays all the materials,styles, hatches, etc while youā€™re navigating or annotating is a big plus. Iā€™m on an old iMac pro fm 2017 and LO 2024 doesnā€™t lag or give me any trouble. It also has to do with how you organize your models, LayOut files and the complexity of the project and information you want to add/show.

Iā€™ve done a few in-depth Live Streams with LayOut so be sure to check those out and see for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5O0VYFvi50 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vXaEIAvYls

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Thanks for the apology.

I did not say it is CAD or that I even think of it as CAD.

I know how to think, I think.

My thinking about LO, if I may have your permission, is that it has the potential to be a CAD lite. Maybe now I have said that twice it will register.

This is essentially the same as every complaint about LO since the year dot - a frustration that what could be pretty much a complete tool for small practices never fulfills its potential, because of functionality.

That said - I have actually done a complete construction package in LO, a few years ago: GAs, sections, details, the lot ā€¦ so I used it as CAD then. Painful but possible.

ā€œmuch better thanā€ is not a helpful answer. There are some good, specific answers to my question in this thread. You chose to tell me how I should think about something, and that I need to update my profile. Iā€™m not sure what sort of response you expect from that other than getting chewed out.

Thanks Iā€™ll take a look

Having an updated profile with correct information helps us help you. You arenā€™t using 2018 anymore are you?

Daveā€™s response was not mean spirited nor condescending. If your first thought is to ā€˜chew someone outā€™ for this kind of reply - this says far more about you than anyone else here responding.

ā€˜donā€™t be an assholeā€™ and ā€˜be kindā€™ are good rules I live by.

That all said I do several sets of CDs for permits a year (custom residences) and multiple sets of fabrication drawings. It is, as Dave said, better to think of it not as CADā€¦ because it isnā€™t. But you have other ideas - maybe post in the feature request thread about what you think could / should change.

It has improved. Greatly, since 2018. Itā€™s not perfect, itā€™s still got its quirks, but itā€™s actually far nicer to use now than any time since LayOut was first released.

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Umā€¦if one person being on the development team up until at least last year seems inadequate, I might be in agreement.

Everything I have heard spoken is that the graphics engine was always the blockade to bigger dev goals. Get that solved and Layout can go thru some stronger advancements. Since 2024 is the very first year of the new graphics engine, my assumption is that the next 5 years will see improvements and with that part out of the way, some of other deeper issues that everyone wants have more potential to make the cut for future releases.

I think one thing that really encourages me is the Trimble put out budget to have @eric-s specifically do pro-workflow Layout content. This has been sorely needed and I think it puts on display that there is a subtle shift going on in the home office (really sorry to see @eric-s fly the coop by the way). We all want more right nowā€¦but small advancements are a good thing. Lots of competitors right now, including AI. Lots to keep track of and manage at Trimble im sure.

Could not agree more. As one user said to me, ā€œLayout is a tiny little box that most people want to shove a whole storage unit of unknown contents intoā€.

Layout performance is best when Layout Ready Modeling is observed. Think of the deliverable first not the model. Model for what you need to see on the paper, not what you need to see in the model. This is counter-intuitive to Sketchup in general because it is a 3D modeler that the vast majority use for the renders and animations.

But I think one can have great models that are built from scratch to work with Layout. Just got to think it through.

The question states since 2021, not 2018.

I donā€™t have other ideas on the topic, I asked if it had improved since 2021, and in support of that suggested it had the potential to be CAD lite. That does not mean I think of it as CAD. I have used VWorks and ACad for 30 years+ . I know the difference.

May I suggest, in going forward, read the question, answer with relevant information, or donā€™t answer.

That is the one act of kindness they donā€™t want you to know about.

Keith

Thanks again for your specific input. Just re-reading it, one of my bigger gripes is handling of styles, if that is different on a PC, maybe I should consider changing to a PC for sketchup use - a lot cheaper than buying a new mac.

One person on the dev team seems crazy. Iā€™m amazed they managed so much.

I really want to have faith in the new graphics engine as a step-change. @eric-s comment about draft mode is interesting too

Hmmā€¦

Fix your profile if you are using 2021.

Yes, it is much improved since 2021. Iā€™m on Mac Studio M2 with Somoma and 2024.

Be warned if you get an M4 it will come with Sequoia - people seem to be having mixed results with it and SKP 24. I will wait to upgrade until SKP is fully supported on it, likely the next release.

@ivan2 I can see where youā€™re coming from. LayOut often feels like Paper Space in AutoCAD. I use both platforms regularly depending on the nature of the project (CAD for CDā€™s if itā€™s a collaborative effort between disciplines and SU/LO for schematic and projects where we are mostly flying solo).

I think I understand what youā€™re trying to accomplish and I believe you can still do most of your 2D work in SketchUp. For example, Iā€™m a Landscape Architect. 3D plant models donā€™t read well in plan view and using 2D symbols in 3D views defeats the purpose of SU. So we use a hybrid where the 2D and 3D versions are in the same component using different layers. 2D views are turned off for everything except plan view and vice versa.

I like the current version of LayOut. Sure, there are still features that would be great like a more robust text editor for those of us that include sheet specs in CD packages. I donā€™t think thereā€™s a downside to waiting. If you jump in now, less to learn later :slight_smile:

Good luck with whichever direction you go. I am rooting for your success!

Definitely a huge improvement from 2021 but still a ways to go to make it what I want it to be. It is way better in terms of navigation speed and drafting in LayOut is now doable.

Hi Michael.

Thanks for your input. The combination of 2D and 3D on different layers within components is a nice one, thanks. I can see an application for that in doors, I have been drawing door swings manually, and grouping them with the LO viewports, turning off the door layer. Now-- the question then would accuracy - the 2D component has to land precisely where it should. Iā€™ll give it a go.

Honestly though, I am not per se troubled by the LOā€™s offer - I stated that I donā€™t have unrealistic expectation of LO as a CAD platform. Itā€™s the functionality of what it is already supposed to do that I was enquiring about - does it still lag / crash / randomly change scale. That last one, for example, means I have to use clipping masks to ensure viewport stability, which is en extra layer of complexity - the last thing LO needs.

Regarding 2D stuff - It would be amazing if LO did upgrade to enable 2D detailing ā€¦ offsets, proper line type handling, wall types etc etcā€¦ but Iā€™m not holding my breathā€¦ BUT - then that leads to my secondary question- which you picked up on, which is why not? Why when I can get QCAD for $25 that is very close to ACAD LT, is this not just basic drawing power that could laid over the top of LOā€™s viewport system?

However, my question was and is - has it improved since 2021? And thanks for your input, but it hasnā€™t actually answered that question.

best

Thank you for the straight answer, greatly appreciated.

In my opinion - yes it is. It feels much faster and sharper than it did in 2021 and its the perfect companion for SketchUp as long as you stay within both programs capabilities. As far as what those capabilities are - we are all learning every day.