I have been doing custom residential and light commercial design for about 18 years. I started with AutoCAD and continued with that up until about 6 years ago. When the whole 3D thing took off I made the switch and have used ArchiCAD, SketchUp (just for fun, never completed a project), and most recently Chief Architect. Chief Architect has been great but the cost continues to go up in price (as of today it is another $40 per month). There are a lot of great tools that automate things to help save time. Unfortunately, they can also cause issues if you are trying to do something specific that the program doesn’t like. Sometimes something simple can end up taking hours. Some of my remodels are also on really old homes that are not built the way things are today, and it seems to struggle with that.
So… I recently purchased SketchUp studio. I know you can create an entire construction set with SketchUp and Layout. I have also become more and more interested in photorealistic renderings. My only concern is how much, if any additional time it will take. I am hoping to get some feedback from people that have switched from Chief Architect or similar programs. Any other advice or thoughts are welcome as well.
I’ve read a lot about this very thing and it seems like for relatively small projects it could be faster than the other options. You need to be very in tune with best practices for modeling and model organization. Be advised that there will be a lot of upfront time developing those practices and especially making templates for SU and LO. The more you can utilize templates, the more time you save, and that time save must be realized over a few projects before it really starts to be efficient.
Check out books by Nick Sonder and Mike Brightman (Mike also has a full on extension – ConDoc Tools – that automates construction documents from SketchUp to Layout).
The books are a few years old but the fundamental principles remain the same.
I dropped Archicad last year (after 29 years!) due to their price gouging and negative development. It was costing more each year and productivity was dropping. I didn’t think SU would cut it fully as a replacement but I have been surprised. However, as others have already stated you need to learn how to use it for your workflow and also look for the addons like Profile Builder that are capable of doing a lot of the heavy lifting. Once you get the hang of it, you will come to appreciate the simplicity and flexibility is its greatest asset. And there are many helpful & knowledgable people here to get you over those early challenges.
Happy to hear you’re interested in switching. I used autocad archicad and revit prior. Archicad was pretty good at tackling 3D and 2d plans. The wheels fell off when it came to custom geometry and rendering. SKUP + Layout is an underrated workflow. Mainly because you can model anything in 3D, and 3D is where your mind lives for the bulk of the work (at least how I use it). I was handed a Nick Sonders book by an old boss and got the hang of it in about 3 or 4 days. The key for my workflow is everything is modeled anatomically correctly in skup, and layout is like an indesign program for viewports and annotation. Like the other forum members stated model organization and layer management is critical. Shoot me a DM if you want a quick tutorial.
Oh and welcome to the community!
Thanks for the feedback! I have the book by Nick Sonder and Matt Donley. I bought it a couple of years ago but never really studied it. Now that I am considering going all in with SketchUp and Layout, I will need to read it. How closely do you follow the workflow that is laid out in that book? I have watched a few other videos and some say that all the walls should be drawn from a top view and then saved to use in the plan view instead of push/pulling them and using a section plane. Looks like they drew everything in 2D and then separately in 3D. I remember trying the section plane and it made my windows look messy in the 2D plan view.
I don’t mind spending extra time setting things up as I have had to do that every time I switched design programs in the past. I don’t want to overthink it, but I want to make sure the time I spend is spent setting it up correctly.
I was hoping Nick would update his book, as I imagine he has updated his workflow, but he’s probably too busy designing houses you may also want to look at 5D+, Condoc, Medeek wall, plugins etc and play around with different plug ins as they all impact how to organize your workflow. I think it’s both the blessing and curse of SU/LO is that everyone can make there own workflow but it can involve a lot of wheel reinvention
I can’t imagine that there is much to update with Nick’s workflow.
As I said – it’s my view that the fundamentals of his workflow remain the same.
Nick’s 2016 book was co-authored with Matt Donley – Matt published the second edition of his own book SketchUp to Layout in (I think 2021). I haven’t read Matt’s 2nd edition book so don’t know if it discusses Nick’s workflow.
I do like the flexibility of being able to decide what my workflow will look like. I know there are a ton of plug-ins, but hoping to keep that to a minimum so my software overhead doesn’t get out of hand and I don’t need to keep reinventing the wheel (as you mentioned earlier) every time I add or remove a plug-in.
Everyone here has a slight variation tailored to their workflows. Mine is a dumbed down version of Nick Sonders. They talk about drawing in orthographic projection first then either importing auto CAD or drawing the floor plan in 2D. Not really important. Mostly that helps their brains think about a space the way they’ve been trained (in 2D floor plans, elevations, etc.). If you can model in 3D, just do that and then go through later and cut sections/ plans/ elevations. One trick that massively improved my modeling efficiency is using the arrow keys (left, right, or up) while using the line tool. You can draw orthogonal lines in real time. This pretty much eliminates the need for 4 viewports like in archicad/ revit with plan, section, and 3D. If you can draw it in 3D why would you need the other views. SketchUp just saved you a ton of navigation time
I have been trying to transition to SketchUp from ArchiCAD, well I started with it because I liked the idea of being able to start a project on the iPad and have used it on a couple of projects so far to produce planning level drawings (concept design for planning applications). It seems to work quite well for this and you can produce quite nice drawings and plans, but control over what you see is difficult, (no variable line weights or decent hatching).
3D presentation is good in that it appears softer and more conceptual, without use rendering software.
However I have not worked out how to do anything that looks like a decent construction drawing. I have tried Condoc tools but it is very clunky and creates so many multiple scenes and overlays it drives me nuts. I guess it sort of works, but it is a clever a work round, rather than a smooth operation. I have tried CURIC tools for hatching but it just makes SU crash all the time so had to remove it.
I have tried window and door tools which sort of work, Flex tools appears to be the best for placing windows, not the same level of parametric flexibility I am used to, but worse they often dis-associate themselves from walls when you re-open a file, so if you go to move a door or window later you need to rebuild it from scratch.
I read about people doing quite large projects on SU but I cant see how yet. I find SU crashes a lot, the model breaks easily if you make a mistake, amendments require redraws, rather than stretch and drag like ArchiCAD, or just changing a wall type globally.
I was hoping to avoid the expense of ArchiCAD but I think you need to spend a lot on add ons for SU to get anywhere near matching it without the same stability and clear workflow.
What SU is really good for is bespoke items that you would struggle to build in ArchiCAD - say filigree or unusual shapes, which you can then import as an object.
I haven’t yet seen a decent set of working drawings from SU/LO except as 3D details. If could find that I might persevere because despite the instability I kind of enjoy using it. I am developing a design for a high end house on a difficult sloping site at the moment and it gives me a certain flexibility, but I know I am eventually going to have to migrate it to ArchiCAD which id a duplication of effort.
Well the funny thing is I left Archicad after 29 years not only for the financial and software mess they have created but I had a sloping site where I was spending so much time trying to sort out level / storey cuts I gave up! I have one primary addon in SU and that is Profile Builder. This tool goes a long way to compensating many of the AC tools. No its not a direct replacement, but it answers several of the things that are on the AC Wishlist and the one thing that SU is delivering albeit in a clunky way is the ability to pull BIM data from the model in layout.
We all make commercial decisions based on what we like to use. Perhaps SU isn’t the right tool for you and you’re happy paying the inflated subscription cost for tools that you will never use, are broken or incomplete. For me I love the simplicity and flexibility of the basic SU software where I feel more in control of what I am designing.
That sounds like why I am looking to leave Chief Architect. It has many features I do not use and I have little control over plans. I spent over an hour trying to figure out a wall that started as an interior one and then had to change to an exterior above the roof line. It looks good in 3D but bad in 2D, then good in 2D but bad in 3D. It tries to force things to happen a certain way which isn’t always helpful. I end up having to make a lot of custom components and additional layers to allow me to hide or show things on specific pages of the plans. I also cannot figure out the terrain and retaining walls for the life of me. I am to the point where I think, the simpler, the better.
There is no perfect system, you have to pick your poison. SketchUp is the simplest to draw geometry in which is my main reason for using it. I can visualize in real-time and have full control over the geometry. It’s all primitive geometry (no parametrics) but dang it’s fast! Archicad and others lean on parametric which means quick geometry but then you have the “manage” (Baby sit) everything it autonomously does. Somehow it’s wrong every time and lacks the controls you need. Not worth it to me, and I’ve found it takes longer than just drawing what I want.
Archicad buries the functions deep within windows. The Archicad Boolean operators for things like grading are a game of wackamole chasing X-operators, and they still glitch out. Everything seams like a work around. You have to know what you’re drawing and think about the measurements before you type in the tolerances. That eats up time that could be spent designing. Sketchup you just draw what you want. Done. Yes you have to be accurate, but that’s your fundamental responsibility as a designer/ architect. Detailing in SKUP + LO is a rare thing but those of us that do it know the up-sides. It’s pretty dang good, especially considering the alternatives. I’ve only seen one decent drawing set from revit/ archicad and that was done by a team of staff at Lake Flato. Otherwise, everything I’ve seen is pretty mediocre, and a direct correlation to the issues we see in the built environment today. There was a drop in quality when the industry shifted to BIM and that’s just the way it is now.
@Hamish2 yes the holy grail would really be something that has the flexibility of sketchup with the parametric abilities of a more sophisticated program with automated renumbering/labeling for window and door schedules, dimension output, etc. Medeek Wall gets the closest to what you’re describing of the plug ins I’ve used so far (can change wall types, match wall types, move openings without extensive redrawing, etc). However it does it in a slightly “heavy” way as it is redrawing all the framing when it does so. I would love if there was a low level of detail way to do this with that plug in and then convert it into framing.
It is nice that there are a ton of plugins for SketchUp. Unfortunately, that can start to add up in cost to match with some of the other more expensive programs. I am also not of fan of having too many add ons as I feel like that can sometimes cause issues and make extra work trying to get things correct in one area so it will work in another.
At the end of the day I guess there is no perfect solution. The more expensive programs do a lot of the heavy lifting but can require a lot of workarounds and cause headaches trying to figure out simple things. The more cost effective, simpler programs like SketchUp, are a little slower as you have to do a lot of additional work but it does allow for maximum flexibility.
For the time being, I am paying for Chief Architect and SketchUp Studio. Trying to finish up some projects in CA and start some in SketchUp. I think the hardest part in all of this is that when you look at both programs, you aren’t really comparing apples to apples. It is two different ways but you end up with the same result. It really feels like a draw and comes down to preference.
you may also want to look at 5D+, Condoc, Medeek wall, plugins etc and play around with different plug ins as they all impact how to organize your workflow. I think it’s both the blessing and curse of SU/LO is that everyone can make there own workflow but it can involve a lot of wheel reinvention