What’s up with SketchUp Make?

[jbacus]

Thanks for the continuing thoughts, everyone. Please know that the full SketchUp Free team follows threads in this forum. Also know that there are members of that team (me, for example) who have been working on SketchUp for more than a decade and a half. If there are specific questions you’d like answered, I will answer them as specifically as I am able.

I think it is natural to speculate about the business model that supports our development work. Not all aspects of that model are appropriate to discuss in a public forum like this one. But we do recognize the importance of universal access to SketchUp’s core modeling features and see the value in sharing them as widely as our business will support. You should expect to see things change over time, but we’ll never deliberately leave anyone without a way to use SketchUp.

Given we can’t yet reach 100% feature parity between our SketchUp desktop applications (SketchUp Make and Pro) and browser-based versions like SketchUp Free and SketchUp for Schools, we’ve kept stable builds of SketchUp Make (2017, 2016, 2015) available to everyone for free as well. If there are SketchUp features you depend on but can’t find in SketchUp Free, you can always switch back to the desktop application. Because we’re careful, old builds of SketchUp stay viable for a very long time.

While we work hard to keep SketchUp both as simple and powerful as possible, remember the words of Thelonius Monk; “Simple ain’t easy.” If you speak up about the features you’re missing, you may find we can add them without much fuss. If not, I’m open to talking about why and what workarounds are available in the meantime. That’s really the best way to steer SketchUp Free into becoming what you want it to become.

john
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[jbacus]

@petsza

my issue was that the keyboard commands and trackpad inputs that I am accustomed to from the downloaded software confused the browser (Chrome) and resulted several times in leaving the page.

This is definitely a problem for us running in a web browser. Can you be specific about the keyboard shortcut that causes you to unexpectedly leave the page? What were you trying to do at the time?

john
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[jbacus]

@mclancer

Is it too much trouble to make sure that ALL extensions in the warehouse work together with the latest versions of Sketchup?

Actually, this would be a pretty big testing effort for any software company. We do test for common problems and security issues before a new extension is posted on our Extension Warehouse, but it really isn’t possible to test every extension (or more importantly, every combination of extensions) in detail to make absolutely certain you won’t experience problems using them.

It is the extension developer’s responsibility to do detailed testing of their code before they launch. They are the ones who most understand how their tools should run and what they should be able to accomplish for you. We give them advance warning when new versions of SketchUp are coming as well as pre-release versions of the core application so they can test for compatibility before we launch.

john
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[eneroth3]

@mclancer

Is it too much trouble to make sure that ALL extensions in the warehouse work together with the latest versions of Sketchup? Too much time has been spent isolating a misbehaving extension. I would assume they should all be working and fully tested before releasing to the warehouse.

SketchUp changes and so does the APIs. A lot of precursor is taken by the extensibility team not to break existing extensions but it cannot always be done. Most extensions will work in newer versions of SketchUp but extensions using compiled C/C++ code need to be re-compiled, there isn’t much Trimble can do about that. Some extensions also (mis)use undocumented and unintended API behavior which can change between SU versions. The extensibility team are working on methods to find such extensions and allow extension developers to know there’s a better way to achieve their goals.

Are there any particular extensions you’ve found to clash with each other or the newest SU version?

[jbacus]

@LekoLight

I don’t even consider using an online only application of any kind. Too vulnerable to attacks. Ever heard of Equifax?

There have certainly been some high-profile security breaches of cloud services in the news lately. Equifax is a great example of that.

Less frequently reported, though undeniably more widespread, are the regular intrusions into personal computers and private data centers that are also happening with distressing regularity. For example, the WannaCry ransomware attack.

Storing your data in a professionally run data center (like those we operate on Amazon’s infrastructure) means you get access to much more advanced anti-intrusion measures than you’re likely to be able to manage as an individual.

You might argue that using a client application inherently protects you from attacks, but unless you’re also isolating your system from the internet as a whole (never connecting to shared networks, never installing software, never opening email attachments, &etc.) you are still vulnerable.

Cloud computing, especially on devices like Google’s Chromebooks, really can protect you and your data very effectively. There are significant security barriers in place that are very difficult for malicious folks to bypass.

@mclancer

Sketchup Pro is so easy to obtain “FOR FREE” and has become much more common on the warez/torrent/usenet internet sites.

This is among the most common attack vectors into your system. Malicious people crack software installers so that they appear to install a popular commercial application for free. What you can easily miss, however, is that they may also install extra malware. You really have to be careful about this. Especially if you’re worried about personal data security.

john
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[ad_1011]

SketchUp, give this man a job @mclancer

[Anssi]

@ad_1011

SketchUp, give this man a job

Why? He seems a promoter of the “If you cannot get it for free, steal it” morality.

BTW, as to businesses using pirated Microsoft or Adobe software: If you are a business, you really do not want to do that. You can get caught. Getting caught does not go cheap.

[ad_1011]

@Anssi My apologies, I was under the impression that you actually read his entire post…

@mclancer

I would recommend, bring back Make and continue with the online version. Despite Microsoft trying their best to ruin things, Sketchup should be (after all these years) alot more stable than it is, isn’t it time to fix it? I believe it is time to upgrade the display, it looks to me like 256 bit VGA. You should only allow extensions that are fully tested, alone and in combination. Apple controls their apps/games to improve reliability, do you not control the extension warehouse? Add some features (at the minimum, the extensions developed by Sketchup) and develope Make into a consumer level product. Charge people a reasonable price, say $50-$125 cdn. I bet a large number of former free users will pay for this version.

Next develope the Pro version into a real 3D product. Including the improvements made to Make, you should add some professional tools to create B-Spline & Bezier Curves, Architect and/or Woodworking building tools, simple rendering, UV control, real animation, GPS/GIS and procedural support and more. If the cost is too great to be included, these features could be in additional modules which could be purchased separately.

Making these changes and Sketchup will be seen as a more professional 3D designing product. A fully decked out and improved Sketchup Pro product would be worth more than $700 cdn.

[LekoLight]

Good points here John. Thank you for responding. How about Trimble making custom, asked for plugins? For a fee? I would like to see a building generator. A mass modeler, using my own built components. I don’t know Ruby well enough to make my own. It just seems making Sketchup online only, is just restricting it to the point, nobody will use it. Autocad has bought 3dsMax, and Maya, and now you “rent” the software. How many customers have they lost?

[mclancer]

Dear John (sorry, I could not resist…lol)
It just seem we all have nothing but bad things to say about Sketchup.
I’ve been using this program since version 5, and if Sketchup was really that bad, I would have switched to another app, a long time ago.
Sketchup does what I like it to do, and in a way that’s much easier to learn and use. It seems to get “into your blood”, just like OSX does for Apple fans. Anything you come across online, seems more interesting, just because it’s about Sketchup. Searching for extensions, materials, and components (a lot easier these days with the warehouses) is a whole new activity similar to a treasure hunt.
People who understand the difficulty of programming (especially on a program written by another company many many years ago) know it’s a lot of hard work to get things right.
Spread the word to your fellow workers at Trimble, although we may wine like little children, we do appreciate this work, which allows us to keep using this program that we all love. I know, I would be lost without it.

[mclancer]

I unfortunately did not document my troubleshooting. Next time I will.

[mclancer]

Why? He seems a promoter of the “If you cannot get it for free, steal it” morality.

No, I was making a point. Warez is stealing, stealing is wrong, period!
Unfortunately, the morality of our society is decreasing a lot. It seems people just don’t care anymore. Getting someone to do their job now a days… what was i thinking? … lol

“BTW, as to businesses using pirated Microsoft or Adobe software: If you are a business, you really do not want to do that. You can get caught”. Getting caught does not go cheap.

I spent over 25 years (before I was too disabled to work) as a Photocopier/Fax technician. As time progressed, hooking into customer’s networks became much more popular. You would not believe the difference between the number of purchased licenses and copies of software. This software is not only used illegally, but is also taken home to use on personal computers. Businesses routinely (not all of course) use warez as a way of saving money. This has been going on since software was invented. A skilled person can be protected from malware and all that nasty stuff. My wife works at a University and warez is almost out of control. Even with the student/teacher/staff discounts, paying for software happens less and less. I can’t believe this stuff goes on and how frequent it is. Businesses that get caught are rare but it does happen. Personal warez, if you don’t sell it, almost never get caught.

In case you’re wondering, many years ago I received a letter from my internet provider about a game I downloaded (with the crack). The gaming company wanted my provider to drop me. They just gave me a warning. That was the end of my “warezing adventures”.

[nolamike]

Newly registered forum user here. I registered just to express my support for the idea of continuing Make development and making it a paid product (in the $100-$200 dollar range). I am one of the long-time hobbyist users, designing a backyard fort, mailbox, office layout, several rough house renovation ideas, etc. in Make. When I saw Make was being brought to the web, with various compromises, I become very interested in Pro. But $695 is just too much for a hobbyist like me. I’d happily shell out a quarter of that for Make however.

I should add that I am an IT Consultant and have had the opportunity to introduce several clients to SketchUp when, in the course of working with them on IT, I learned they had 3D drawing needs.

I hope Trimble will consider the path of a paid version of Make for maintaining a strong hobbyist (read evangelist!) contingent while bringing in some new income for development.

[jbacus]

@mclancer

Spread the word to your fellow workers at Trimble, although we may wine like little children, we do appreciate this work, which allows us to keep using this program that we all love. I know, I would be lost without it.

I’ll do that. Thanks for your support over the years and thanks for the kind words about the work we’re doing.

john
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[Wave7]

I hate to be obvious here, but why on earth don’t you keep the downloadable Sketchup Make as a paid for middle tier option. Many of us don’t need Layout and the other high end Pro options. On the other hand a web based Sketchup is a nonstarter (e.g. we have unstable rural internet connection).

Price this mid level option at $150-250 and add some features to it (nicer rendering perhaps). I love Sketchup but this makes me really question the leadership that came up with this.

[Andyroz]

Well of course it’s a disaster for people in developing countries and for people (like me) who simply cannot get the kind of connectivity required to make this kind of web-app work. It has been a really great tool for education and hobbyists up until now.

We have become quite hooked on SketchUp with it’s relatively easy learning curve, and of course it’s freeness, but I guess all good things come to and end, and this is it for SketchUp.

Anyway, can’t complain since it was free, but I’m not looking forward to the learning curve for Blender!

[john_mcclenahan]

If there is ever to be a paid-for version of Make, one thing that definitely needs fixing is printing to scale, and printing in general…

It needs to become much easier to use, and more predictable in what is printed on a single page. At the moment, it seems to be governed not just by what is visible of the model, but by the size of the whole main SU window including borders and window ‘furniture’.

One further refinement might be to add the option of simple rectangular borders fixed relative to the screen, like screen text.

[jeclark2006]

Well, I guess it is back to beat my head against the the Blender Wall. Originally Sketch Up looked promising as a simple 3-d free modeling tool for the occasional user.

But now ‘free’ with the latest ‘web app’, means that one is not ‘free’, but is required to be connected to the net in some way, which depending on where one is, traveling or just located, one is required to pay to access the app.

At the ‘pro’ price, there are other 3-d modeling tools at similar, or perhaps more, but have far greater capability and coverage in the world of 3-d modeling.

If ‘pro’ were $100 maybe I’d spend for it. At the current price, Carrera would be better.

[Photon]

I’ve not spent much time working with The new Free browser version so my opinion is based off my attachment to the capabilities that Make offers or rather offered. after my initial rage and frustration finding out of the change i thought I should at lest try the Free but being used to Make i quickly became frustrated and disappointed, i imagine for new users the experience will be much different.

like most of the users i can’t justify paying for the pro yet. with the future goal of starting an indie game company someday. the great thing about make was like Unity we’re able to take time to become proficient in using the programs, while still working. sure their’s the free trial, but how much can we really learn if you only have little spare time to spend on it, its taking me months and i’m finally just starting to get good at it.

SketchUp seemed to always offer a free version based off the pro version, so what I question is what does Trimble have plained for the Pro Version? is SketchUp free moving in a direction away from Pro or do they expect the free version to still be the bait for those that need the pro features & licensing. the short time i’ve spent using the web version i can say that It would not at all make me interested in the pro version or aware of it’s possibilities

I currently use photoshop and learning unity with a duel display setup, I know sketchUp has always been designed for single display use, but could be nicely setup and in my opinion better utilized with two monitors. so that’s a major disappointment with the move to the browser version.

for me the only possible benefit of the move towards a browser version which, thinking of it now is most likely entirely the reason to go through the effort of rewriting a new web based program is that Trimble now offers the capability for a mobile platform. wether or not this will change my opinion and disappointment in the discontinuing the make version is yet to be known.

Obviously Trimble thought this decision through and honestly it’s no surprise, every programs moving towards cloud accounts and mobile availability, Though I’m not so sure the challenge of such a small screen and potentially lack of precision will be worth the effort. Additionally with Make I use and assigned shortcut keys to most all tools i use, definitely an upsetting factor when comparing the new Free version &/or mobile devise

One thing that has me questioning the future plans Trimble has for SketchUp pro. as a mac user i have in intel iris graphics card. was I mistaken that it was suggested not having an intel based graphics card. Should not be surprised to see the day that sketchUp pro is no longer available for a mac platform?

perhaps repetitive of other posts but I also want to let Trimble know If your so inclined to continue to update Make or create an “I’m trying to go pro but not their yet” version based off of Make; I too would be willing to pay a reasonable fee, hopefully the SketchUp community has shown enough interest to consider a potential market.

Thank you for reading my opinion

P.S. slightly off topic and perhaps coincidental, but did anyone els notice the timing of the change to web based coinciding with the the Net Neutrality debate, perhaps its relatively irrelevant, just saying Trimbles a big company had things been a little different seems they could have stood to make a lot of money by doing this?

[liamk887]

I think the intention is that by the time backwards compatibility is a problem with the free desktop version ,the web client will be sufficiently advanced.