I said…
I will try and get back to my original work flow question. We all agree that the visibility of objects, and nested objects, can be toggled both in Outliner and Tags. That capability is new in Outliner in SU2020. Layers is now renamed Tags. All good so far.
Sketchup says: “Outliner: This leads us to our BIG model organization change. In an effort to increase model performance, you no longer have to create Layers upon Layers. You can do your main model organization straight within Outliner. We recommend using this (and our friendly eyeball icon) to toggle between the major chunks of your model like main floor plans.”
The question is: Have any proficient SU / LO users actually incorporated the new Outliner visibility function into their workflow, and do you have any insights to share from your use of the new Outliner function? That is all I am asking. Thanks
It’s not so new. In prior versions the Hide/Unhide toggle was on the Outliner item’s right-click context menu. SU2020 only added the eye icon buttons which eliminate one mouse click (which is good for sufferers of arthritis, tendinitis and carpal-tunnel.)
It is not that the visibility control feature in Outliner is new … the main fact is that in the past Outliner was a dog and officially it was recommended to have it closed most of the time and use layer-tags for visibility control.
This caused issues down the workflow line in LayOut. So what is really new, is that they overhauled the guts of Outliner to better perform (update, etc.) and make it easier to toggle an object’s visibility (ie the eye toggle buttons,) as well as fixed a long standing bug with the visibility states of nested objects in scene pages.
Now (with the release of SketchUp 2020,) … the official tune has changed. They are officially promoting the constant use of Outliner because it is the interface that actually shows geometry and manages true object nesting hierarchy of the model.
So the result is that the use of “Tags” should take a secondary (but still necessary) role to model view control (it being more of a documentary viewport control in LayOut.) This is a good thing because the previous name “Layer” made new users think they were a geometric container, instead of just a property pointing at a shared list of display behaviors.
What I’m getting at is that they have really changed the way that new users should think about the use of Outliner and the Tags inspector, … even though fundamentally there has been no basic change in the use of either. Really just a few “bells and whistles” for the Outliner.
With regard to the future of Tags, we are hoping for “tag groupings” not necessarily “nested tags”. (I say this because the word “nesting” conveys positional encapsulation and the whole idea of tags (as Steve said above) is independent upon any geometric contextual containers or their nesting. Ie, they are globally categorical.
Anyway … the workflow has not changed so much, as it should be faster and better with quite a few less tags.
2 Likes
Yes.
And within floor, wall, etc you could have even more nesting.
So in wall you could have external and internal and then within those you might have existing, new, modified, etc…
That is not the only ‘Condoc’ system, check here:
In a sense, that is why I always ‘nest ‘nested’ ‘ within quotes…
1 Like
Anyhow, having more (direct) control over the visibility states in outliner screams for better filter options.
Filter a selection of objects (not only by name of object, but also by Tag or Classification or any of the Advanced Attributes)
Then create a View and save it as Scene
1 Like
Thanks. That sheds some light. I will feel my way along on this one for a bit to see what works best. My best guess right now is I will stay primarily with Tags for visibility control because I have a lot of stock objects that are used regularly and are that set up for Layers / Tags. Also, when setting up Scenes, it is easier to look at one palette rather than two to see what you are doing. But I may see the light as to why the improved Outliner is a big plus. I am sure there will be more discussion on this subject as people dig in.
I had no idea this was the case. I always have it open to try and keep track of the model structure. I do think that keeping all objects in Outliner visible and graying out the ones not toggled on in the active window is a great improvement.
There are quite a few posts in forum about this. You’ll find me replying and explaining how on Windows platform, the Outliner can be docked to it’s own tray and that tray autohidden into a left margin tab so it slides out into view anytime we need it. (Sorry your’e on MacOS, I see.)
Sorry guys I need to disagree. The same Layer/Tags used in the example geometric nesting above could still be attached to other objects totally outside those objects (pictured) at any nesting level.
To promote the idea of “nested tags” is incorrect in how they are actually implemented and contrary to the new nomenclature devised by the Trimble SketchUp Team as explained in the Release Notes and What’s New topic.
I fear this (“nested tags” idea) will serve to further confuse users.
I take your point Dan.
Though, if you know your workflow it’s not a problem…?
Thinking about it, as I understand it, Mike Brightman’s stacked LO viewpoints for controlling lineweight could be implemented with the outliner.
The nice thing about controlling tags in LO is that you can cut down on the scenes in SU to generate the lineweight viewpoints in LO.
2 Likes
I would argue, if you want to control the visibility for individual objects, e.g. hide one certain scale figure in one certain section that would otherwise cut it in half, hide the entity. If you want to hide a class of objects, e.g. hide all furniture in a view focusing on the structure, use tags.
3 Likes
I agree that trying to be careful with nomenclature and names as we write these messages will be most helpful and least confusing for all.
Indeed, here are many differences in appearance and in some functions between the Windows and OS versions of SU/LO. I like the docked trays in Windows vs. the floaty-around palettes in OS.
Hi @DanRathbun I can dock to the right margin but not the left. Is there some trick I’m missing?
If you have the tray out of the group,drag it towards the left side. Look for a bunch of arrows on the screen that are highlighted. Drag the tray over one that is pointed in the direction you want it to go. You will know when it is picked up. It will then go in the direction you picked. Takes the pain out of docking the trays.
1 Like
Thanks I’ll give it another try.
The point of the discussion was to explore an option to reduce the steps Modeling managed by Outliner-to-Assigning Tags-to-Layout. If there was a way to blend Outliner and Tags, the two powerful tools would be much more powerful when controlling graphics, visibility, colors and grouping in one step and a time saver.
Take for example the Layers Panel extension.
https://extensions.sketchup.com/extension/d3d69487-3311-47e6-94ba-44488fafe5e9/layers-panel
With Layer Panel you have the ability to manage visibility and grouping in one tool. This extension could be improved upon if “Dashes” within the “Tags” dialog box were added and visibility control within Layout was an option.
Never paid attention to those previously. Thanks, again.
1 Like
Please do not confound the “grouping” of layer/tags with the geometric hierarchy grouping that is displayed and accessible via the Outliner.
The two are separate things. Layer/Tags are not bound or confined by geometric hierarchy or containers.
(Ie, multiple window component instances can be “tagged” with the same “Window” tag regardless of their place in in the model’s geometric tree.)
Again, reiterating that SketchUp layer/tags are not containers and cannot “own” or encapsulate geometry. They are simply a tag (property) that is used by the rendering engine whether or not such objects so “tagged” are visible (ie, rendered in the OpenGL scene.)
The whole reason that the name was changed from “layer” to “tag”.
Your sentiments have been expressed by others many times in the past, and things are moving in this direction. This is indicated by the “layer” to “tag” name change and the updating to the Outliner panel.
Also, the response from Trimble SketchUp employees has been very positive with regard to requests involving improvement to model data management interfaces (ie, the Ouliner, the Tags panel, etc.)
Meaning the incremental improvements that you saw last release to the Outliner, are a result of past request and discussion.
So … keep on discussing and requesting. They are listening.
2 Likes
Presently, the object tag property can only point at 1 tag.
This tag property is not displayed in the Outliner.
1. Do you think it would be beneficial if the tag for objects were displayed in the Outliner (and how) ?
Currently you can select objects in Outliner and then move over to the Entity Info panel and change the tag for the selected object (or multiple objects if you’ve selected more than 1 in Outliner.)
2. Do you think it would be beneficial to have a clone of the Entity Info panel’s tag droplist control on the Outliner’s toolbar ?
3. How would tag color be displayed to your benefit for objects in the Outliner ?
4. How would your “single tag” ideas have to change if object tag property became a set of multi-applied tags ?
While directed to the OP, I would like to react, too, if you don’t mind 
While I always found that peculiar and advocated to have the ability to put more than one label on an object, I am beginning to feel differently and having doubts about implementing that.
Maybe just refer to them as ‘Layer Tags’ in order to distinguish them from the Classification Tags. Much easier for backwards compatibility and use of existing extensions. Most CAD software still have layers and Interoperability has always been high on the list for SketchUp.
Besides, object can have multiple Classification Tags, all ready.
Like when you right click on an object that is on a ‘Hidden Tag’ and have the option to set it to visible, there could also be an option to assign a Tag, as well.
Having an xtra column (maybe user defined, for ‘Layer tags’ and or classification tags) would bloat the object tree needless, I think.
That’s why…
A user defined or customized tooltip with entity info would be handy, hoover over the objects in the viewport or over the names in the outliner. Perhaps basic info standard, but a customized option which would show when pressing a modifier key.
I would leave those properties for the ’Layer Tags’ and maybe have the ability to apply different styles to objects. This way, surroundings could have a more ‘sketchy’ style while the main object could be in a more realistic style.
Having a way to visualize entities in more than one panel leads to the question what preveals, but that might be solved with scenes or ‘views’
Eg. have an button or contextmenu item in each panel to switch to
‘Color by Layer Tag’ ‘Color by Classification’ and ‘Colorize Objects’
I’m having doubts about assigning multipe ‘Layer Tags’ to an Object…