Trimble, please reanimate Sketchup

While going slightly off topic, the patient that needed reanimating comes with a Business plan of Trimble Connect, with unlimited cloudstorage, configurable syncing tools for data of the projects, version history, etc.

It’s not at odds with what I’m saying.
I’ve always used a paid version, but found that a limited, free version was a good thing for young professionals to start a business. This was back when SketchUp was backed by intelligence.

Hi Mike,

I wanted to double check the provided information regarding 3D application and multi-core support, so I sent email to Maxon asking if it’s better to go with more cores or with higher clock speed. This is the reply I got:

Most Cinema 4D tools support multithreading and can use more than one core or thread on your CPU. The Standard and Physical render engines are both multithreaded, for example, while Sketch and Toon is still single threaded. To answer your question, though, almost all features in Cinema 4D are now multithreaded and you can expect multithreading to be added to more features, or multithreaded features to replace old single threaded ones, in upcoming feature releases.

So it seems the post you shared about the subject, though informative, was not accurate or at least not up to date as cleary C4D already supports and take advantage of multicore CPU, though not 100% yet. That is just one 3D software, and I expect other 3D applications also supporting multi-cores CPUs, at least to some degree.

Clearly, feature 3D applications will be taking full advantage of multi-cores technology and Trimble should support it in upcoming versions.

Double checking is always good, no doubt some tools like rigging or animating would benefit from multiple cores. But each thread ore core still has to wait a cycle to input the outcome etc.
Every form of animating or righing is still a serial process by laws of physics.

The same problems arise with multiple users working on the same model, like in Revit for instance, if user one decides to move a wall to the left and user two wants it to the right, what will be the result?
There is only one keyboard-stroke our mouse move that determines the endpoint of an edge.

Maybe they will find a way to set up some kind of neural system and implement a parallel system. (AI, where you learn a system how it should model)
Good marketing stuff (‘We also use AI’) :grinning:

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Maybe a “reanimated” forum where one could filter out posts about the subscription model, and Blender, and the generic “not innovating anymore” posts?

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Or you could simply ignore them.

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I understand where you are coming from, but if multi-core does not improve the performance of 3D applications, let say C4D, then why would Maxon waste money and resources on supporting it and even plan to fully support it in further release? It just does make any financial since!

Again, I understand the logic behind the nature of 3D serial process … however technology always evolves, and what was impossible 10 years ago, is a reality today. So maybe Maxon found a way to break that “physics” limitations :wink:

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I have used SketchUp Pro daily for about 14 years and am happy I don’t have to pay the price for autocad like I use to.

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You misunderstood the reply you got from Maxon.

This means that, as in other applications, the rendering engines in Cinema4D are multithreaded. There is nothing new in this. Modelling tools cannot be multithreaded. There is no built-in photorealistic rendering engine in SketchUp.

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That probably relates to the fact that I work for an official Partner of SketchUp. But they don’t own us, for that matter, we also sell Modo and the whole Altair suite besides different Renders like Twinmotion (Epic!), V-Ray and so on.

But I originally was a building contracter and when asking why certain software did not take full advantage of my new state-of-the-art computer they tend to compare it with the building process, you can’t start on the second floor if the 1st floor walls aren’t there. Prefab would speed up some thing in the building process itself, but takes more time to prepare and logistics. This time can be spread, just hire a few more subcontractors and they could all be working on all the elements the same time, but putting things together relies on a sequential order.

Another thing is, if you ask two contractors about how they work and why one would be better than the other, you might choose contractor A to build your house and maybe even hire contractor B for parts of it, but when something goes wrong and ask contractor C for an expertise, you wonder how you even considered hiring A and B in the first place!

Parallel computing sometimes actually slows down the process, imagine you would go to work with two cars instead of one, you drive car A a few hundred yards, walk back to drive car B a few yards ahead, etc.

Sometimes when asked by a client when a job was suppose to be finished I would joke about starting with the skirting , first, because that’s usually done at the end (Client: ‘But there are no walls to put them on?!?’ reply: ‘But the wall contractor does know where to put them, though, between those skirts!’)

On the subject of reanimating, I agree that there are parts of the rendering that could be improved, especially in relation with the inference system. Check this thread for instance:

This is exactly where SketchUp could improve, it treats all the leave components as if it were constructible elements in a building design and so the database in Outliner get’s bloated, while if treated as an simple (or more complex) asset that just needs to get visualised while orbiting, it would only use the multithreaded GPU instead of the serial computed data in the CPU.

Or, like in the web-based 3D viewer of Trimble Connect, provide a way to decrease the load of info while zooming in on an object (like in a gaming engine, the level of detail is dependant on the distance of the object)
That’s why it’s easy to load multiple models inside the viewer. But when a model is altered, it needs to reload.

I’m glad I was able to direct this thread back to Trimble connect :slight_smile:

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Isn’t this where ‘proxy’ elements come into use for rending? SketchUp doesn’t have to process the heavy geometry at all.

… almost all features in Cinema 4D are now multithreaded and you can expect multithreading to be added to more features, or multithreaded features to replace old single threaded ones, in upcoming feature releases.

I understand from that reply that almost all tools are multithreaded, not just the rendering tools! He also said that future release will replace all old single threaded tools with multithreaded ones… And I assume this includes modeling tools.

That is what Autodesk promised to do in about 1995 for 3DS Max. We are still waiting.

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That is not the point here, Anssi. The point according to the information is that multithreaded support for modeling tools is also possible otherwise developers would never promise for something that is impossible in the first place.

I don’t know about Autodesk but maybe they did not deliver what they promised because it is hard and very costly to implement such things or maybe for other reasons.

However, Maxon still recommends to go with more core numbers over lower cores. So I would defiantly take their advice for my upcoming workstation.

Core modeling and all direct modification of the current model is single thread, in all current applications.

https://developers.maxon.net/docs/Cinema4DCPPSDK/html/page_manual_cinemathreads.html

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Maybe the problem is within its name and concept. It’s a ‘sketch’-tool. Not meant to make sophisticate 3d models etc…but the problem is; it does! It has become an unique tool for designers with great possibilities and great limitations. For us users there is NO alternative which works as gentle as SU…Trimble is monopolist. Suggestion for Trimble, develop an app which is based on the SU Ui that focusses on professionals. No sketching but designing…without the limitations of the initial SU concept. Let it go, let it gooo!

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Absolutely! After changing the icon, the name must be changed. I dream of a “TrimbleCad” something. And why not “TurboCad” !

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Good post…I like the example of individual leafs (leaves) .
Exploding all the leaves and hiding their edges helps a little but they are still calculated as fully snappable, reportable and interactable objects. Even hiding their edges doesnt really help with snapping very much.

Turning them into “background” objects would be nice. That would be a halfway step between being visible, and being hidden.

So imagine if we had a “lock” option or “background” option for components (and other elements such as imported images).

Then lets take this idea even further.
Think about the difference between sketchups model window and a similar view within a rendering software like twinmotion or lumion.
Rendering software isnt very editable, but its rendered much faster. So how about Sketchup having a viewing mode that changed certain components (we could call them proxies) into rendered and shaded items . This wouldn’t be too different to a second window running Vray next or Lumion (with live sync enabled)…but it would be running inside sketchup as a mode just like Wireframe or Shaded.
In all views except the rendered view those proxies re just a box or simplified representation.

This wouldbt be too unlike when I have trees that have the foliage on a separate layer that I turn off. Only the problem with putting 400mb of trees and 3d cars onto a hidden layer is that it is all still being calculated (and editable) within sketchup (and…on a single cpu core)

I admit, I should have reviewed all the various earlier threads before I posted my rant. The “Same Sketchup you love, new way to buy” and Josh.obj’s threads in particular all neatly and more clearly sum up my frustrations with Trimble. It looks like its off to Blender I go.

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The last update of SketchUp with the painfull modifications of shiftkey created a “new click” on me … : )

I see that it is possible to create a few tools that will make Blender more familiar to SketchUp users. For example, the rotation tool of Blender is different from that of SketchUp, but there are separately all the functions: rotation planes, pivot point, etc… and you’re left with a familiar tool that could be improved upon. And then there’s the power of Blender. I discovered an interesting workflow that does not exist in SketchUp with objects a little equivalent to dynamic components, but with a different approach, which in some cases is more efficient.