Related question:
What’s the difference between a color and a texture?
If my understanding is wrong, please advise. Here’s my understanding:
No difference. They are both merely images. A “color” is nothing more than an image within which every pixel is the same consistent color. A “texture” is nothing more than an image within which the varied color patterns are intended to simulate a real world… pattern? Woodgrain, stone, metal, carpet, grass, etc Is this correct?
John,
Thank you for that fundamental explanation of colors vs textures vs imported images. I don’t know if anyone else benefited from that, but I did. I innately knew that a single color was by far the cheapest (on resources) way to show objects in a 3D model, even though I did not articulate it properly. And so far, I’ve been applying simple textures to certain things but trying not to get carried away. So my model could be further leaned up by using a color, vs the texture I’m using now on those items?
The color of the next new face you draw is going to be the default color for front/back faces. Unless you change it in the styles panel it is white/ blue-grey. It doesn’t matter whether that new face is in a group/component or just floating in model space. Posting a quick little test I hope makes sense for you. Drew the four shapes colored each shape then grouped them. I opened the group for editing and drew three new faces. As you can see those three faces are the default white color. It’s up to me to now color them with the PaintBucket if I so desire. SketchUp can’t guess which color I want those new faces to be.
if the group/component has a colour assigned to it all new faces in that context use the ‘group default face colour’ until they themselves are painted…
That is very true and what threw me in the earlier part of the question. But, in this case the OP has materials assigned to Groups and is modelling with Shaded with Textures face styles turned on. So, within each Group level, the new faces will “show” that contextual material, until the faces themselves are “painted” with material, which overrides any Group/Component assigned materials.
You guys are starting to make sense. Contributions from
tuna1957, ianT, john_drivenupthewall are helpful and appreciated. Although I don’t have a grasp on it yet, I can see it and am headed towards it. “It” being a comprehension of the problem. “The problem” being a lack of understanding of this functionality of SU to assign colors of parent container to new faces created within it. The thread
is also well into this problem, and is, I’m having that feeling, going to prove helpful ironing out my “problem”.
I’ll have to get back to this thread to report what I figure out is going on. It’s definitely one of these 2 things.
Sidenote: While reading the last line of ianT’s most recent comment, the last 4 words changed right before my eyes. Nothing else on my screen, just those last 4 words. He must have posted an edit right then.
Fascinating…
Okay, there is a bit of confusion being told to you. Ie …
… is in part incorrect. Truth is mixed in making it confusing. Let us break it apart. …
This appears from the OP’s statements to be true. Somehow Scott got the “Formica” textured material assigned to a cabinet group as a “parent” material, inside which he was creating new faces.
Incorrect. There is no automatic material assignment happening. It is display rendering ONLY.
If you examine the face objects in the Entity Info panel, you’ll see that they individually still have no material assigned to them specifically. (“Under the hood” using Ruby to ask the face what it’s material is, results in having nil returned. This means no material object has been specifically yet assigned to the face itself.)
When faces and edges within a geometric context (group or component instance) have no material (textured or plain color) specifically assigned, they will be rendered in the model’s (or scene pages’) rendering style face colors (set on the “Edit” tab, “Face Settings” subpanel, of the “Styles” inspector, for the appropriate style.)
Note that these “default” face colors are not actually a material, and are only “live” rendering colors. They do not result in actual material assignments to any of the geometric objects in the model.
But, IF the immediate parent context (group or component instance) has a context level material assigned, ANY faces or edges within the context that have no specific material assignment yet made will be rendered using the parent context material.
This is a rendering function and does not result in actual material assignments to any of the child faces or edges.
(Note that edge rendering can be overridden in the style settings and is usually set to “All same color” which is usually black. So normally new users will see material rendering applied only to faces.)
No, I haven’t changed the default color in the Styles Panel. Don’t know how to do that. Is this is a universal setting? Having opened Styles Panel just now for the first time ever, this is my first introduction to it. Investigating this…
…a few minutes later: Ok, so this Styles Panel looks interesting, but as I’m not familiar with what’s going on here, I’m going to decline to change anything, and in fact close it up now, unless someone can convince me that I need to understand it right now. (It seems to indicate that the original default face colors are in effect.) Maybe at a later time I’ll learn more about it.
Now on to the other possibility, which is the behavior for new faces to inherit properties of the container in which their drawn…
…And 20 minutes later: So, this ability for a group/component/container to be assigned a different than default color/texture for new faces was unknown to me, but it is the malfunction. The malfunction more so on my part, because of ignorance, but as I always say, “How am I supposed to know about something if I don’t know I’m supposed to know about it?” Which leads to a rather pointed, accusatory question I’ve seen made in other places in this forum, even as recently as today: Why do the makers of this software provide no instruction, in the form of a user manual? Please leave that as rhetorical. Just gets old, the complexity of this thing (SU), and the methods that must be pursued to find the answers. Much harder than the modeling itself. It’s really akin to not knowing how a car works. You see it has wheels, so it must roll somehow. You see it’s complex and beautiful and must do wonderful things, but since you’ve never been exposed to it you don’t have a clue how to make it go so you end up pushing it… ( < caveman meets car analogy)
In the middle of this experimenting and writing, DanRathbun chimes in with some high level stuff that may be too heavy for the OP right now. Thanks Dan, but I thought I was just getting to a state of “slightly less ignorant”, until you threw all that in there. Wouldn’t it be ok for me to have enough of a grasp on this to be able to just continue modeling for now? This had me up till 3am last night and I don’t want to master it (now), I just want to learn as I go. Mastery can come later. You’re like a college professor bursting into a kindergarten class talking about E=MC2 stuff.
My issue is/was having the group level texture set to something other than default, which is something I was not aware could happen. Entity Info is the portal to control that, I am now seeing. Was not aware, but now am. Will try continuing with what I’ve gleaned, much thanks.
I was going to compare the complexity of SU to the complexity of a certain fairer gender we’re all familiar with, but I won’t. The layers of an onion come to mind though, so I’ll use that. These layers of complexity seem to have no end.
I didn’t feel the need either. Didn’t know it was happening. When I want to throw a color or texture on something, and hit B, there is way way way too much stuff coming alive on the right side of my screen. Lot of buttons to push and not the knowledge of what does what. The swatches. What’s all this? So I’ll ask a couple questions here that I left out of that last big post:
In material editor, in the lower right corner of the “swatch(?)”, what’s the tiny white triangle?
In material editor, the “swatch(?)” sometimes is a solid color, sometime shows 2 different colors being divided diagonally. I’m only vaguely aware this relates to the front/back properties of the face the colors will be applied to. How is this controlled? For example I have a shape that I want both side of the faces to be the same after I splash the bucket full of color or texture on it, instead of having to splash, then reverse faces, then splash again.
They don’t actually inherit (which in software terms means “properties are assigned to be the same as”.) They are rendered the same as if no material is individually assigned. No actual assignment is made.
I see we’ve been cross-posting. I will bow out as you don’t seem to want real help.
I don’t take kindly to bearing the brunt of frustrations born of incompetence.
Yes I see that now, and the results of acquiring and processing these user guides will no doubt take a few days. Results being, me learning answers to my questions, at least the pressing questions. Sorry, links were buried in your explanation which at that moment I was trying to wrap my head around. Rest assured I will go after those guides, and I do actually want real help. I wouldn’t be wasting my time here if I didn’t want real help.
That, I didn’t miss. Just not sure if I need to understand it at that fairly high level right now. Your understanding of the clockwork is impressive. Maybe I’m just jealous.
There’s a compliment buried in my comment about you, you’re just not seeing it.
You’ve tried to help me with the links that reside on help.sketchup.com. I don’t find answers to my questions there. I’m asking about details that they don’t go into. So the usefulness is limited. You’re at a much deeper level of understanding of the clockwork than I am. I believe I self declare my incompetence from the beginning, which is why I seek answers to begin with. Are you a professional at this? Whether you are or not, I’m certainly not. I’m at about 2nd grade level here. Thought I was learning to use it, but the more I learn and apply, the more I get to things that I’m screwing things up by not understanding the yet to be discovered inner workings. It’s a process. I’m trying to get a grasp on the multitudes of hidden layers of hidden “features” buried in this software. Features that if not understood have confusing and harmful effects on the hard work of the model already made.
Chill on the sensitivity level. No harm intended. Apologies from me.
The term “style” is used in so many different contexts, it’s confusing. I don’t understand what the swatch is, as it’s represented so many different ways in so many different contexts, and does different things depending on where it’s used. To me it’s just a 3/4 inch square on a computer screen. No explanation of the different functions it does depending on what context it’s used in etc. SU is obviously very powerful, but it’s also very complex, the relationship so many of the features in SU have on so many other aspects of itself. Render is another word you’re using in a different context than in a recent conversataion I had in another thread. A lot of terminology going around that may mean different things depending on where it’s used. And don’t even get me started on Layers. As a rookie, YES, I’m confused, frustrated, overwhelmed sometimes! Don’t take it personally Dan. Trying to communicate with experts to find answers, that’s all. Experts, or maybe users ahead of me just enough to help me along. To explain things. Things that SU creators must be assuming I already know. Not the case. I find the stuff on help.sketchup.com to be vague and not really helpful. Seems to me that’s why so many people must consult their fellow users here on these forums. At this point I’ll have to join those who cry out for a competently organized, comprehensive, indexed, user guide. Not a bunch of vague web pages with nested links to other web pages, where the rabbit holes have you sidetracked in 60 seconds and you forgot the question you came there with. That ■■■■ makes my eyes glaze over. If these geniuses can MAKE software of this complexity level, why can’t they make a User Guide to go with it?
