Point or Normal Inside Group in Relation to Model

If I have a face inside of a group, and look at its normal, that normal is relative to the bounds of the group. Without removing it from the group, is there a way to get its normal in relation to the model?

Similarly, a way to get a point inside of a group in relation to the model?

Group and component instances have transformations:
http://www.sketchup.com/intl/en/developer/docs/ourdoc/transformation

You can apply the reverse transformation of the group to the face’s normal vector.
http://www.sketchup.com/intl/en/developer/docs/ourdoc/vector3d#transform

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Applying the transformation to the normal vector will convert from local coordinates to world coordinates. If nested in multiple groups, then you have to apply all the transformations.

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