Subscription?

[PaulMcAlenan]

Sure you’re outlining an aspect of Grasshopper that helps you a great deal, but from cursory Googling about Grasshopper / Algorithmic Design I don’t think it’s going to help me in what I use SU/LO for which is the design of domestic buildings and production of construction documents. Can grasshopper save me time in turning my survey notes into a floor plan and then into a 3D model with separate components/groups for walls, windows, structural elements, etc.?

Believe me, I’m not happy about the discontinuation of the classic license and M+S but the alternatives, Rhino, Formz, involve significant investment of money and time. And whose to say, as has been pointed out somewhere, if at some point Rhino or Formz may decide to discontinue perpetual licenses…?

Blender with some of the recent ‘more-like-CAD’ plugins looks promising but how do you turn your nice Blender model of a domestic extension into 2D construction documents as you can with SU/LO?

[presence-architecture]

@jiminybillybob

I make a living of selling SketchUp extensions. I can assure you that of the thousands of licenses we’ve sold so far, only a fraction of those are active and will buy upgrades.
You can’t simply multiply the total number of licenses sold by the upgrade fee. Far from everyone will upgrade.

If upgrades are interesting, customer buy them. At the time of Google and LastSoftware, people bought updates. This is a basic commercial law, and this is the purpose of subscription plan : to keep customer forced to buy with the minimum of research and development.

[presence-architecture]

@PaulMcAlenan

Can grasshopper save me time in turning my survey notes into a floor plan and then into a 3D model with separate components/groups for walls, windows, structural elements, etc.?

Believe me, I’m not happy about the discontinuation of the classic license and M+S but the alternatives, Rhino, Formz, involve significant investment of money and time.

Interesting.

I am architect, so I design building and this is exactly I develop on Grasshopper (before on SketchUp with heavy work with Dynamic Component).
For example I reproduce easily the level tool in Revit/Archicad. You change the floor level and wall, slabs etc are updated… Very simple to do.
Grasshopper is a development tool, you do what you want.

Yes it is an investment of time. But Trimble say to you, you can keep perpetually the last version you keep. So you may do not buy a subscription (your license is lost, so ?), continue to use SketchUp and during this period, you may prepare the transition to another application, if Trimble do not change their policy.

The 2D construction document from 3D model is the same in any 3D application. In Rhino/Grasshopper there is Make2D. I don’t know for Blender, but I started my own algorithm. In SketchUp, outing a 3D model give you 90% of the plan. You have to add 2D symbols to get 100%.

[bifterx]

Sounds like you know what you need/want to do. Good luck to you.

[MikeWayzovski]

@presence-architecture

At the time of Google and LastSoftware, people bought updates.

Simply not true (many Partners and distributors almost couldn’t make it when Google decided to release a free version)

@presence-architecture

This is a basic commercial law,

Anyway, we know a bit about renewal rates, since we are an official Distributor of SketchUp, and, btw, not tiered to Trimble and sell Rhino as well as ViaCAD, SharkCAD and the products of Altair (formely known as Evolve, and provides design software that uses topology optimization software, and also holds TheaRender)

We also sell the extensions @jiminybillybob is refering to, and he is right.

Off topic, Altair uses a nice subscription model, you buy units, and get access to the whole suite of their products, how usefull is this?

Plus, while grashopper is really nice to explore different options, in general, these options are not always as usefull as it might seem.

How to choose between hundreds of (almost the same) options?

IMO, if you start using algorithms to determine the design, all designs would eventually turn up the same. It would be a grey mass if engineering started to design our homes and workspaces with these algorithms, surely participating in the race to bottom.

I could still activate my pencil tool in SketchUp and draw something extraordinary.

Try giving a sloped wall or door a ‘grass’ texture in Revit, it’s darn easy in SketchUp.

[SketchUp3D_de]

@MikeWayzovski

It would be a grey mass if engineering started to design our homes and workspaces with these algorithms…

hey, don’t mess with the Engineers

[MikeWayzovski]

@presence-architecture

you may prepare the transition to another application

This is very good, it helps if you learn other software and poke a little in programming languages.
It helps keep seeing things in perspective.

I too once tried to learn programming (C+, I believe)
After a couple of days, got a rectangle on the screen (woohoo!)
I decided to buy software that did that in seconds:)

[presence-architecture]

@MikeWayzovski

@presence-architecture

At the time of Google and LastSoftware, people bought updates.

Simply not true (many Partners and distributors almost couldn’t make it when Google decided to release a free version)

LastSoftware develop from zero with this model. I remember I have paid updates from Google, there is not only free updates. And the economical interest for partners was not to sell SketchUp licence and updates, but service and training to pro users. This is one of the reason why SketchUp Make was important, it may start business and potential pro version user’s.

@MikeWayzovski

Altair (formely known as Evolve, and provides design software that uses topology optimization software, and also holds TheaRender)

I have stoped to pay TheaRender and replace it since subscription. Altair was bought.

@MikeWayzovski

grashopper is really nice to explore different options, in general, these options are not always as usefull as it might seem.

No, this is very important. Exploring and modifying represents the largest share of work in art and design. Exploring solution with SketchUp or any 3D modeleur take too much time compared to Grasshopper. This not the unique use of Grasshopper. I think you don’t know the potential of Grasshopper, or algorithmic design.

@MikeWayzovski

if you start using algorithms to determine the design, all designs would eventually turn up the same.

No. Grasshopper is as SketchUp (at the beginning, and now), you have to be creative in methods and to discover or invent with. The result is smart in both application.

@MikeWayzovski

I could still activate my pencil tool in SketchUp and draw something extraordinary. Try giving a sloped wall or door a ‘grass’ texture in Revit, it’s darn easy in SketchUp.

That is right. Except that Revit is the BIM reference, not SketchUp.

Except that, now, the reserve of time and productivity, the real revolution is algorithmic design. I’m not a big fan of Zaha Hadid, but I don’t think she used SketchUp.

[presence-architecture]

@MikeWayzovski

I too once tried to learn programming (C+, I believe)
After a couple of days, got a rectangle on the screen (woohoo!)

As an architecture student, I tried to make my own 3D program in C++. I focused on interface. This is why I have an analyse and opinion on interface and software.

Now I regret not to discover at that time the concept behind Grasshopper, that which makes the development of sophisticated interfaces unnecessary.

[presence-architecture]

@MikeWayzovski

@presence-architecture

you may prepare the transition to another application

This is very good, it helps if you learn other software and poke a little in programming languages.
It helps keep seeing things in perspective.

This is exactly what we discuss on phone today with a teacher in architecture school. They teach Blender, and we discuss about development to get a better tool for architecture. They discuss at school on the eventuality to do not teach SketchUp anymore. Of course They teach Revit.

[MikeWayzovski]

(Sigh)

@presence-architecture

LastSoftware develop from zero with this model

Was it Brad that told the story of how they gathered 1M fund for their initial idea? That’s how @last started.
They had this customer’s profile in their mind: 50 year old architect or draftsman that could not cope with the revolution that took place at that time in the architectual firms, all the youngsters went digital.

Looks like we are back 20 years later

@presence-architecture

And the economical interest for partners was not to sell SketchUp licence and updates, but service and training to pro users.

(Sigh)
What planet are you from?

@presence-architecture

This is one of the reason why SketchUp Make was important

(Sigh)

…

@presence-architecture

I’m not a big fan of Zaha Hadid, but I don’t think she used SketchUp.

Her firm uses Altair Inspire… why iterate over thousends of possibilities, when you get faster results by certain constrains
.

Resource Library | Altair

[presence-architecture]

@MikeWayzovski

@presence-architecture

LastSoftware develop from zero with this model

Was it Brad that told the story of how they gathered 1M fund for their initial idea? That’s how @last started.

“from zero”, I mean they don’t buy a development, they make it.

@MikeWayzovski

@presence-architecture

And the economical interest for partners was not to sell SketchUp licence and updates, but service and training to pro users.

What planet are you from?

Well, I worked for several of these firms as a trainer on SketchUp, and I knew that from them. They were not interested to sell SketchUp but to train and provide services for important architecture and engineer firms. Now SketchUp is not important at it was.

@MikeWayzovski

Her firm uses Altair Inspire… why iterate over thousends of possibilities, when you get faster results by certain constrains

I have an idea of what her firm use, because I see job announcement and I knew a person who work for her.