# Is there any hope for layout? **URL:** \ **Category:** LayOut\ **Created:** [July 31, 2023, 1:25pm UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102 "2023-07-31T13:25:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![r2d22](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@r2d22](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/r2d22)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/22 "2023-08-03T15:28:10Z")
Is anyone using Condoc Tools for Layout and if so what has your experience been? I am a long time user of PowerCadd for 2D drawing and because of a lack of update to the current OS am looking at doing my next project completely in SketchUp and Layout. If Layout had the tools that PowerCadd has I would be in heaven. ---
**Author:** ![PaulMcAlenan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/paulmcalenan/32/211206_2.png) [@PaulMcAlenan](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/PaulMcAlenan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/23 "2023-08-03T15:39:35Z")
I don’t think I giving anything away – from the product overview… > Trimble Drawings will allow you to view, collaborate and edit a _ **DWG** _ file via a convenient and secure cloud environment. My bold and italics. ---
**Author:** ![PaulMcAlenan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/paulmcalenan/32/211206_2.png) [@PaulMcAlenan](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/PaulMcAlenan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/24 "2023-08-03T15:46:30Z")
I don’t use ConDoc Tools but I occasionally dive into what Mike Brightman is up to. From what I think I understand of ConDoc 5’s multi-tag feature – that would indeed be great to have natively in SketchUp – I don’t think it works with Layout’s **tag** override feature. I believe that there’s nothing you can’t do with ConDoc that you can’t already do natively with SketchUp \> Layout. Of course, ConDoc automates Mike’s workflow system and takes the time and pain out of working out your own workflow. ---
**Author:** ![bmike](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/bmike/32/225451_2.png) [@bmike](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/bmike)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/25 "2023-08-03T16:20:10Z")
I really like Mike and what he’s done with ConDocs, and I nearly bought it only for the tagging feature. Thankfully during the trial period I learned it just didn’t work for me (needing objects on 2 or 3 separate tags) - so I’m back to my old, and sometimes time consuming methods. Not sure how that would have translated to LO, but I do wish multi-tagging came to be native and magical. I mean, they are ‘tags’ now, not layers, and the way tags work in many things is you can have many of them applied the same thing… ---
**Author:** ![PaulMcAlenan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/paulmcalenan/32/211206_2.png) [@PaulMcAlenan](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/PaulMcAlenan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/26 "2023-08-03T16:30:37Z")
I believe Mike is leveraging **attributes** to apply multiple tags. I’ve already made a start on understanding how to implement this in a script and have managed to get some code together that will assign some attribute “tags” to an object. But by the time I would finish it, SketchUp would probably have already implemented **multi tags** 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![medeek](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/medeek/32/10675_2.png) [@medeek](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/medeek)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/27 "2023-08-03T17:01:17Z")
If you are new to SketchUp and Layout or have not established your own unique workflow (there are more workflows than I can count) then ConDoc Tools is a great extension to get yourself started and well on your way to producing high quality drawing sets in SketchUp. I know that Mike has made some recent updates to ConDoc Tools that make it even more flexible and powerful. I think both Mike and I are certainly on the same page when it comes to the Ipad version of SketchUp. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/original/3X/6/6/661a4e308064cb1a02cea2c10f09efae04416c19.jpeg "My advice for Trimble SketchUp...") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR3NBuD_BIE) ---
**Author:** ![cnca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@cnca](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/cnca)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/28 "2023-08-04T15:33:28Z")
I use Layout intermittently for small projects but still find the problems that Nick Sonder notes extremely frustrating. I would love to see them corrected along with the addition of a few other features such as spell check and PDF importation. ---
**Author:** ![RTCool](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/rtcool/32/181048_2.png) [@RTCool](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/RTCool)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/29 "2023-08-04T16:20:55Z")
> [@KeithBrooks](#): > > > [@endlessfix](#): > > > > I continue to use 2022 for both in my everyday workflow > > Same here! Me three! (edit: Sorry! Couldn’t help the gratuitous Three Stooges reference.) ---
**Author:** ![KeithBrooks](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/keithbrooks/32/247817_2.png) [@KeithBrooks](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/KeithBrooks)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/31 "2023-08-05T11:19:09Z")
What does it mean that I actually know that reference? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bikerchris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/bikerchris/32/64167_2.png) [@bikerchris](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/bikerchris)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 7:45am UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/32 "2023-08-06T07:45:41Z")
Can’t agree more with your comments, I’ve tried occasionally to use Layout, but it’s just lacking so much performance. Great for a hobbyist, though would a hobbyist spend £300 a year on software? For me I only use SU for illustration reasons, sometimes for working out complicated roof designs that I then import into CAD for formal presentation. ---
**Author:** ![kevin58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/51bf81/32.png) [@kevin58](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/kevin58)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 8:23am UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/33 "2023-08-06T08:23:04Z")
Having read tons of posts on here this is what I think. To state the obvious, Layout has limits! It can be brilliant for certain projects, but it will struggle after a certainly level of complexity. Its actually perfect for my own work (100+ sheet documents with plenty of detail) but I wouldn’t use it to detail a Manhattan skyscraper. There’s a limit to what most software can do and Layout is no different in that after a certain level of complexity it will struggle. If you’re at that point you need to either streamline your workflow or discover some work arounds and there’s plenty of help available right here for either. SketchUp is cheap as chips - its great for certain projects but if yours is beyond its capabilities then either take the trouble to make it work for you or find something else. Simple really. ---
**Author:** ![bikerchris](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/bikerchris/32/64167_2.png) [@bikerchris](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/bikerchris)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 10:42am UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/34 "2023-08-06T10:42:17Z")
> [@kevin58](#): > > There’s a limit to what most software can do and Layout is no different in that after a certain level of complexity it will struggle Completely agree with every you said, the only aspect that differs is that if CAD is struggling, you are able to throw more powerful hardware at it. This is sadly something you can’t do with SU and personally one of my frustrations. I don’t have any insider information on how the additional money is spent (a product that went from £100 to £300 pa), but it would be superb if it could become multithreaded. Compared with SU, Layout for me has always lagged - that may only be a few seconds, but it’s enough to discourage me using it. I don’t know about others, but with daily CAD use such as myself, does get a little sloppy with cad file maintenance. But the programme just keeps going without a care, while the same can’t be said for Layout. Of course we have to acknowledge that we are comparing £300 SU with 30+ year old well established £2000-3000 software, which is a little unfair. ---
**Author:** ![CJT1963](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/cjt1963/32/230485_2.png) [@CJT1963](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/CJT1963)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/35 "2023-08-06T11:29:40Z")
Hi r2d22, On a side note, you mention PowerCADD & was interested in seeing this being demoed on YOUTUBE, but not much to see. Topically speaking about Layout, I also thought there was some collaboration with AutoDesSys & Form.Z to significantly enhance the 2D drawing capabilities into Form.Z, but wasn’t clear if this was their Layout version of SU. The Form.Z programme seems the nearest match to SU, but AutoDesSys seem a bit quirky for new users. SU is advertised everywhere, so SU HQ have got that right, even being advertised along established BIM programmes ! Anyway, SU has an extension called 2D Tools that might help, see Justin Geis YOUTUBE video for further info:- [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/original/3X/d/d/ddc48231aef8058db07c3870ff1b278e55d42dc9.jpeg "SketchUp Hatching, Lineweights, Line Styles, and More with 2D Tools - Extension of the Week #44") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9jFZiPModc) ---
**Author:** ![desconsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b77776/32.png) [@desconsh](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/desconsh)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 5:42am UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/36 "2023-08-07T05:42:06Z")
Is in not perhaps time for Trimble to cut this from the system and start again. It is clear that this was a lousy piece of software to start with, trying to flog a dead horse into life, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Ittai1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b38774/32.png) [@Ittai1](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/Ittai1)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 7:06am UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/37 "2023-08-07T07:06:56Z")
I have read with interest what was written about Layout. I came to SketchUp about six years ago after about twenty-five years of working in the Solid environment. The solid software is intended for creating various assemblies, and I personally had a lot of experience in building complete buildings, including laboratories with all the accompanying equipment. At the push of a button, you get a drawing and you can produce unlimited different sections and facades. And this is true in all the different solid software - Solid Works, Cimatron, Inventor, etc. A simple thing is needed, for Trimble or a software company to create an engine for creating drawings for SketchUp, like the engines in the aforementioned solid software. Best regards Ittai ---
**Author:** ![krojan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@krojan](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/krojan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 7:39am UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/38 "2023-08-07T07:39:45Z")
same for me, 23 is a desaster !! ---
**Author:** ![gsharp](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/gsharp/32/25083_2.png) [@gsharp](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/gsharp)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/39 "2023-08-07T08:12:25Z")
I’m not rolling off my 2021 permanent (said with a tinge of irony) license until I see a bangs for my buck! ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_SOME](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@Jonathan\_SOME](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/Jonathan_SOME)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/40 "2023-08-07T10:27:50Z")
As I have said elsewhere, if PowerCadd and FormZ ever complete their promised tie-up, they might just steal the entire show - I would certainly like to explore that option if (ever) it becomes available… I’m just so tired of having to constantly check all my Layout dimensioning to find the ones that have lost their reference, before issuing drawings for construction, never mind all the shenanigans with importing/exporting DWG’s (I don’t always get to choose the consultants I work with, and those I am new to tend to have little patience when information is urgently required). ---
**Author:** ![endlessfix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/endlessfix/32/148757_2.png) [@endlessfix](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/endlessfix)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/41 "2023-08-07T16:02:04Z")
Yeah, 2022 or 2023 are not that different from 21 which I have a perpetual license for as well. In hindsight I could have saved myself a lot of money and headache by just not subscribing, but we were promised great leaps forward with the fresh investment of money that comes with SaaS. So far it appears that the bulk of the development resources are targeted at the Web and iPad versions. A new flip tool is nice, but not a game changer and there are still a few basic broken things in the SketchUp Pro / Layout interface that could really use some attention. I sometimes feel a bit like I took my broken car to the shop and they washed it and waxed it and gave it back to me with a big bill, it’s shiny but still broken. I am hopeful that the incremental improvements will continue and even accelerate once the Web and iPad toy products reach a certain development level and resources can be refocused, let’s hope that we see some attention payed to the Pro version soon. I would so love to have the 2024 SketchUp knock my socks off and get me excited all over again to be a professional SketchUp user. ---
**Author:** ![baseplate](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/sketchup/user_avatar/forums.sketchup.com/baseplate/32/187760_2.png) [@baseplate](https://forums.sketchup.com/u/baseplate)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 12:32am UTC](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102/42 "2023-08-08T00:32:36Z")
I’m ready for improvements to Layout too - especially the dimensioning and text tools. Aside from lines, dimensions and text are the most important features of construction drawings. I agree that the iPad version is irrelevant to professional users too. I can see why Trimble would be investing and developing one, but they must have different users they’re trying to capture (and it seems like it’s at our expense…). Fingers crossed for 2024 release! [Previous page](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.sketchup.com/t/is-there-any-hope-for-layout/237102.md?page=3)