Getting Frustrated - Tell me it's me

SketchUp for Web SketchUp Free
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It is not SketchUp’s fault that longtime CAD users bring with them a false assumption that SketchUp will work just like (or similar to) AutoCAD. (There is no advertising that I know of that claims this.)
It doesn’t, and was designed specifically not to be like AutoCAD. If it were, it’d be just like all the other ACAD clones that have come and gone over the years, and likely SketchUp itself would have already died long ago like those clones.

There are many differences in workflow. SketchUp has keyboard accelerators, not multikey commands.
It has a Ruby Console, and not a command window. SketchUp has no macro interface, instead relying upon Ruby scripting. SketchUp’s Measurements (VCB) input box uses a different way of entering absolute and relative coordinates than AutoCAD. SketchUp has built-in tool inferencing that cannot be switched off or modified like ACAD’s Osnaps. SketchUp is a “model space”, and the “paper space” is a separate application LayOut that only comes with the Pro editions.

It’s you.

You are starting with biased viewpoint(s) and incorrect assumptions. Ie, attempting to use the software as if it were CAD and it should work the way YOU think it should. Failing, and blaming the software.
(FYI, I myself came to SketchUp after decades of using AutoCAD and it’s clones. We all have to go through this adjustment phase I suppose.)

Some do. Some people are just not ready to ever learn an “unCAD” way of doing things.
(The world will not end if you go back to AutoCAD or Revit, etc.)

But, if you are willing to accept a learning period, and put all of the ACAD habits aside, you can learn to become proficient with SketchUp modeling. Many people use both. They create 3D geometric objects in SketchUp and export them to DWG for use in AutoCAD.

First of all, SketchUp layers are no more than display behavior property sheets that can be shared by multiple complex objects. (complex == not primitive)

Take note of the warning at the top of the SketchUp User Guide concerning the use of layers …

Secondly, SketchUp does not have a freeze feature at all (comparing to AutoCAD’s freeze.)
SketchUp does have object locking, but not layer locking as SketchUp layers are not geometric collections (and really were poorly named. Think of SketchUp layers as “masks”.)

Thirdly, all geometric primitives (edges, faces, arcs, curves ) should always be associated with "Layer0".
However, you can have clines, cpoints and complex objects (groups, components, dimensions, text callouts, section planes) that use other custom display “layers”. The primitive members of group or component entities collections should remain associated with "Layer0". (Think of "Layer0" as having the "Primitives" alias.)

In SketchUp, you must use grouping or componentizing to separate geometry into “contexts”. SketchUp has “active” edges/faces that automatically interact with other edges/faces in the same geometric context.

So if the modeler does not separate geometry they wish to be separate, then inadvertent interaction can cause the stretching of edges and the automatic triangulation of faces (seen as fracturing.)

As you learn SketchUp, leave the Instructor panel open as it’s content will change as you change tools. If the info is too terse and your need more detailed descriptions, there is a link at the bottom of every Instructor content page into the SketchUp Online User Guide for that tool.

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FYI - Third times the charm for the vids. Chrome - nadda, Safari - Nadda. Explorer - Yeppers. I find that a little funny because didn’t SketchUp start out under Google? Thanks everybody for pushing this forward for me. Frustration is a funny thing when you have time and effort into something and you don’t know where to turn next. Thanks for smashing my 28 years in engineering Dan. There’s nothing like someone who is defensive, to clear things up for someone who is confused…Good Job!

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No, actually Sketchup was only part of google for 5 of it’s 18 years, it was originally created by a company called @last and has now belonged to Trimble for longer than google owned it.

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Well done you for taking another try. It’s got its own way of doing things but Sketchup can be very rewarding and powerful once understood. I once told someone rather arrogantly that Sketchup was just a “toy” because one could never really model accurately in it, now I haven’t touched Vectorworks in years.

It’s cool, give it a chance.

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No. It’s SketchUp.

In SketchUp the phrase layer means something else than in all other programs I’ve ever used that have something called layer. In general a layer is a separated collection of geometry, and geometry don’t stick, merge or otherwise interact between layers. In SketchUp a “layer” is a tag or a class applied to individual entities, that in no way prevent them from merging and sticking to other entities. In SketchUp groups and components are used to organize the model into more manageable and meaningful chunks, and layers are in 99% of cases applied to those groups/components to control their visibility, not raw geometry.

SketchUp isn’t supposed to be like AutoCad and other programs, and as Dan pointed out there are a lot of design differences. In my view they are all good design choices, except the choice to use the specific term “layer” for a feature that just isn’t the same as the very common feature by that name.

Stop thinking of SketchUp layers as layers and everything should make a lot more sense.

(@jbacus would it be possible to some day finally rename the SketchUp so called “layer” feature to “Visibility tags” or something to avoid this constant confusion?)

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Julia,
If I’m understanding this correctly, when I go back into my model to clean it up, I should be moving all the individual pieces to layer Zero, making my group there, then move the group to its layer, correct? Basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor, etc…
Joe

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Yes pretty much. What I do when cleaning up old models is (after making sure everything is grouped first), making sure Layer 0 is selected, deleting all of the other layers and making sure to choose the option (move all geometry to layer Zero, or something to that effect).

So you can make the groups before you move them back to Layer 0 not after.

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TIG wrote a plugin called Default Layer Geometry which will instantly return all geometry to Layer 0. You can get it from Sketchucation.

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Yup.

I haven’t locked on the model but depending on how much things have merged into each other it may be easiest to draw the geometry anew, rather than trying to split it up. If doing so, group what you have already to be able to draw over it without merging, and then delete said group.

Best practice when modelling is to group whatever you are drawing as early as possible, and avoid having raw faces/edges in the top level drawing context. This reduces the risk of accidental merging when you later draw new objects.

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True.
The same is true in CAD.

See Mitchel Stangl’s perspective on CAD layers vs SU layers.
Working With Large Models — Mitchel Stangl |3D Basecamp 2008

I think CAD users coming to SU understand Layers control visibility.
Their frustration with SU stems from the fundamental difference in behavior of geometry in CAD vs SU
• CAD geometry is isolated by nature.
• SU geometry interacts by nature.

In CAD, one can draw two lines that cross one another and each line remains a separate entity.
Whether the lines are all on the same layer or different layers makes no difference.

CAD
CAD908×519 6.49 KB

In SU, the opposite is true.
Lines that cross one another instantly cut where they cross and inexorably stick together wherever they touch.
Whether the lines are all on the same layer or different layers makes no difference.

SU
SU908×519 7.81 KB

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& if OP has a significant amount of geometry on well organized layers…he would benefit from Rick Wilsons’ GroupByLayer plugin (free) at Smustard.com
Use GroupByLayer plugin before using TIG’s Default Layer Geometry for taking advantage of already isolated geometry to form groups in same name.

Charlie

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SU ver 6 (and I think earlier) don’t. Crossed lines and planes etc. do not stick or cut where they touch and are separate entities. I wonder why this was changed?

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At the time there were loads of feature requests to make edge split where they crossed other edges. There are numerous cases where that is desirable. Maybe more than not.

For example, it would be more work to do the following if the diagonal edges didn’t get split where they cross.

edges
edges477×503 199 KB

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The work around in SU6 is to stop the line at the required intersection and then continue again to the opp corner. Extra work I suppose which is maybe why things were changed. But you get used to it

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Edges in SU have always merged when being in the same place and geometry have always been sticky in the endpoints. Extending this to also merge geometry that overlaps does in my view just make SketchUp more consistent and predictable. In SU6 and earlier you could sometimes have different intersecting topologies in the same drawing context, but only until two vertices happened to be in the same spot and got welded into one. This modeling technique has always been error prone and using different drawing contexts for things that shouldn’t stick has always been preferred.

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Could not agree with you more…Far better to get into the habit of, say, grouping things for consistency than relying on the haphazard whims of SU6’s sticky agenda

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All,
I’m making progress cleaning up the sins of my youthful cad thinking attempt at modeling (trust me Dan’s in my head as I do it) but I keep getting a SU warning “ :warning: CFileExcepttion 0 in (file name)”.

I have my model grouped now but I haven’t really “moved” anything to Zero layer as suggested earlier in this string. Is it time for me to dig into that?

I also have several old versions of my model piling up on my desktop. Is this normal or because of the warning.
Joe

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Certain cloud storage services may cause that.

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I get the CFileException 0 message when I try to save shortly after exporting a model to Kerkythea. The file is saved locally so in my case it has nothing to do with cloud storage. If I wait awhile I can save the SKP file without the message but knowing it is likely to happen after the KT export, I save beforehand.

This has been going on for several versions. The SketchUp folks know about it and have been trying to sort out why Windows throws this message. Fortunately the worst that happens is you get a new copy of the SKP file. Most likely you can dump the oldest ones if you don’t want them.

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One of my plugins calls windows c++ application (CutMaster.exe) via ruby spawn command. If I try to save the sketchup model or if auto-save triggers while Cutmaster.exe is open then I always get the CFileException 0 message. So I’ve turned off backups to avoid this issue.

My guess is Sketchup has a need to make sure that the model is in a safe state prior to saving. You wouldn’t want your model saved with a half completed face. The saved model would then most likely end up corrupt. I would think that the child process (spawn) is detected as potentially unsafe for saving the model and Sketchup therefore throws the exception.

Perhaps this is similar to the issue Dave experiences with Kerkythea.