Add location changes all my scenes. edit : and rotates my whole model

[ateliernab]

So, a problem I noticed recently, and I have a few minutes to show it.

this is a normal sketchup file, no fancy scenes, just a volume, grouped, and a top view.

then, I launch add location and pick a point somewhere on earth. and I rotate the model.

go back, there it is

instead of keeping my model as it was, aligned with red and green, and adding the “true north” orange line at an angle, it rotated my entire model. and it’s not just me, not just my Sketchup, it’s on all of my trainee’s as well.
and yes, axis location is ticked in my scene panel, so even if it moves the axis of the whole model (it doesn’t, it rotates the geometry) it rotates.
it’s a major stepback. it used to be that adding location kept the north on the green axis, and we had to manually rotate our projects, and it wasn’t great. then it got fixed with the addition of the orange line for the north. and now it’s broken again…

[Elmtec-Adam]

I saw this the other day - I used add location after a photo match and it broke it as the model was rotated

[ateliernab]

Precisely how I noticed it, then I tried with a regular model, also broken

[Elmtec-Adam]

I think it may have been like that for a while - it breaks UV mapping also when world coordinates are used

[ateliernab]

Well, I see @martin_heuschober is around, maybe he has an input on this one.

GeoReference and True North Angle

Hi, one of the developers of Add Location here. The SiteContext dictionary only exists for the internals of Add Location. When we set the geolocation we set both the ShadowInfo.NorthAngle as well as GeoReference.GeoReferenceNorthAngle (note that there is a comment in the code base that NorthAngle is the reliable one so don’t use the GeoReferenceNorthAngle). This is complicated by the fact that the solar north plugin allows the user to change the north angle. So what we do in Add Location is …

[pablo_prats]

Hi there @ateliernab and @Elmtec-Adam after some testing, i can check the workflow where you first set a scene and after do geolocation rotating the model, is not supported/broken. As a workaround, if you do it the other way around, you won’t have problems. Having said that, that interaction should be supported at some point

[ateliernab]

@pablo_prats

Having said that, that interaction should be supported at some point

it was. until it wasn’t anymore.

[jlo1]

This has been broken for some time. I’ve had this issue on multiple models over the last couple of years and I had to revert to a backup since I use an high amount of scenes that all became instantly broken and undo-ing didn’t resolve.

[ateliernab]

pretty sure it worked as expected around the time they released the new extension, I remember testing it, my model would retain its axis and orientation, all the scenes were the same, the only change was that the north appeared as an orange line.

and at some point, an update broke that, the north still appears as an orange line, but the whole model rotates so that the green axis is still pretty much north.

what’s the point of the orange line then ?

[ateliernab]

@pablo_prats

after some testing, i can check the workflow where you first set a scene and after do geolocation rotating the model, is not supported/broken.

today I wanted to try the analysis hub on an older project. it required a geolocation in order to get better results.
but I can’t, unless I want all my scenes to be broken.

[daniel_pidcock]

@ateliernab

but I can’t, unless I want all my scenes to be broken.

What about unticking “Axes location” from properties to save on your existing scenes?

[ateliernab]

it still rotates. it’s not simply the axes that change, it’s like the whole model rotates after the location change.

unticking everything also doesn’t change the result here…

[RTCool]

Very annoying indeed. Maybe my workflow has prevented me from running into this.

My standard workflow is to have two models: 1) a building model model with default axes that work best for the building, and 2) a site model that’s geolocated and the axes are left alone — I just let north fall wherever SU puts it. I make a component out of the building and import it into the site. From there on, I use the building component as a reference file and update it as changes are made.

I guess this approach has insulated me from running into this as yet?

[bmike]

I do the same - one model aligned for ease of modeling. Others as needed for terrain / etc.

[ateliernab]

this is what I teach my trainees yeah. but there is a gap between what you teach and what is applied. and I’ve had a few case of feedback from former students asking me why their file was all broken all of a sudden.

---

it’s my gripe with beta-testing. You ask “power users” to beta test stuff, but they know the good practices, and that protects them from potential problems.

a good practice is to start by the location. or to do the 2 files trick. but it’s not THE way to do it. it’s just a good practice, a tip

And when I train, I don’t start by that. Once the model contains many things, we start talking about shadows, about pbr and reflections and we explore geolocation.
The fact that at this moment it completely breaks the model and rotates it (even if you don’t use scenes) is a major problem

[daniel_pidcock]

@ateliernab

it still rotates. it’s not simply the axes that change, it’s like the whole model rotates after the location change.

Correct, if we just rotated the axes, the model would be no longer aligned with the axes which would be really annoying for modelling.

What is the problem you have with the model being rotated, and what do you mean by “it completely breaks the model”?

Dan

[ateliernab]

@daniel_pidcock

What is the problem you have with the model being rotated, and what do you mean by “it completely breaks the model”?

I’m working on this house. top wall and bottom wall are both perfectly horizontal. that’s neat.

now, I was only planning on making simple plans and sections of this project. so no need to geolocate, I know where the north is, but as it already exists, I don’t really need it. I’ve made my scenes, my sections, I’ve made beauty shots of the timber frame, everything is ready to publish in layout. In fact, I’ve made a layout file, I’ve stacked some viewports, everything is aligned and proper.

But now, there might be an extension to the house, and I need it to be located properly to test shadows and use the brand new analysis hub.

… so I geolocate it.

geolocation’s preview is correct, it shows me my model with its axes, and it adds the orange line. Seeing this tells me my red and green axes will remain. they are exactly where I expect them to be.

but now the model is rotated. it’s not aligned with the axes anymore, if I draw a rectangle, it’s askew. it becomes a pain in the ass to work on it.

and since I made this model a couple of years ago, I can’t start by geolocating prior to drawing the model. if I want to use geolocation, it means changing axes on EVERY scene, then replacing the camera correctly, updating the scene, then going to my layout file, and updating every page, and replacing all the drawings on every page because everything shifted.
all because the stupid geolocation tool decided it was ok to rotate my whole model.

Therefore, the only way to use geolocation tools with this project is to use yet another sketchup workaround and create another file, geolocate the other file, and import my project in it.

edit : toning down the frustration and sarcasm.

[ateliernab]

Ok, this is a what it does vs what it should do example, but it turns out it's not the model that rotates, it's all the old scenes. see following post. I edited this one due to irrelevance

this is what geolocation causes right now

it rotates the model so that the orange north is now on the green.

This is what it did for a few month, and what it should do

it leaves model as the user made it and simply adds an orange line as reference of the north.

I mean if the “new way” is the way you lads expect it to work, then why add an orange line to represent the north in the first place ? Why bother, it’s gonna be rotated to merge with green.

am I talking nonsense here ?

[ateliernab]

OOOOh, nice.

When I say it breaks the scenes, It does actually break the existing scenes, not the model itself.

See the video.

I start from an existing situation, scenes are all set, green is up.

I add location. model rotates on screen. BUT at this point, if I use the standard views, the whole orange + axis is not broken yet. If I create a new plan view, it’s fine, it works as expected.

As soon as I click on one of my existing scene, it rotates the axis to align it with the orange line AND the camera follows. meaning all my scenes are now broken.

If I use my older scene, it’s broken, I have to redo all my scenes all over again, then my whole layout file.

@ateliernab

am I talking nonsense here ?

I knew I wasn’t crazy. My mother had me tested.

[ateliernab]

and just so you see it’s not related to my file, here it is with my custom template.

and here with a default default one.

when the file contains existing scenes, something tells the scenes to completely rotate axes AND camera to match orange and green. and that’s bad.